A message from down under.
I have seen the tirade from what I call "a bunch of buffalo hunters" all gathered around the camp fire telling tales and chanting "The Herds are going to come back!". Well there not.
I've been in the business for 35 years as aprofessional mechanical and chemical engineer and use high level software for pipe stress analysis (its faster than charts), network analysis and waterhammer design.
As for the competency of your draughtsmen perhaps you should sub contract it out to some companies in Australia as were are on the ball down here. No we are not frightened by new technology. When our guys dont know we train them. Get the old lags in and sit with the young Turks and show how to lay a plant out so you can operate and maintain it safely..
If you dont like the status quo take your drawing sets and gallop out into the sunset. Suggest you guys gain some training skills and find some new business helping the next generation learn. You will enjoy giving your knowledge as you leave a legacy for these guys and probably become very rich.
Regards
Geoff Stone
"Gerardo Delgado" <gdelgado@tecnoconsult.com> on 03/05/2001 21:54:51
Please respond to <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=usCFM5-OXd7iJYpxfNj0k6pgduoV2WwQVA7rsv7JqUbVvB68M6xtROQQ1bNW8TiECH3NOvqNczRWEOBLaOMSUQEjtQ">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a>
To: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=usCFM5-OXd7iJYpxfNj0k6pgduoV2WwQVA7rsv7JqUbVvB68M6xtROQQ1bNW8TiECH3NOvqNczRWEOBLaOMSUQEjtQ">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a> cc:
Subject: Re: [PipingDesign] Tirade
Hello all there!
I feel like joining this party.
I quite agree with Darrel in many of his arguments. I am a Project manager
who left college 21 years ago as a BSME. I have gone through the design on
board, OMNI series, PDS, Autocad, smartplant, you name it. What I have
noticed is that new designers who haven
īt had the experience of designing on
the drafting borad , do not quite get to the point, nor they get the real
feeling of designing.Of corse there are exceptions. But in general, I find
that many Cad designers do not really know what they are doing. They are just
blind Cad operators. It is quite a shame that many engineering graduates are
not being required to learn the drafting techniques.
It is a similar situation with new incoming pipe stress analysts. In my not
too old days ( early 80īs), I was required to perform manual stress
calculations using methods like Grinnell, Pipeturns, Kelloggs, Power Piping
Charts, etc, etc,.for simple systems. Computer calculations were reserved
only for highly complicated systems. I have noticed that nowadays, many pipe
stress analysts are only CAESAR II, SIMFLEX, etc operators. Is is also
shameful that people having more and most advanced tools today, do not take
full adventage of them.
I strongly believe that it is a personnal actitude problem. Employers and
employees should resolve this situation together.
Every one must take the necessary steps to resolve this.
As Darrell, I miss the good old days!
Gerardo
ll bean wrote:
> hello Darrel Marshall,
>
> did you mean to say autotrol or was that a mistype?
>
> todd
>
> --- Darrel Marshall <piper170@home.com> wrote:
> > Paul, I'm new to www.PipingDesign, but I've been in
> > the discipline 1 yr, 25
> > times. I've been in Cad off and on for 20 yrs,
> > starting with antiquated
> > Autotrol in 1979, IBM Cadam in the early 80's and
> > the last 8 or 9 on
> > Autocad, with a learn on my own Rebis package for
> > about 2 mos. I would kill
> > to go back on the board again. I'm leaving Uncle Al
> > (Alcoa) the end of May
> > and moving to WYO, but will probably have to work in
> > Denver area, if I can
> > find work.
> > Everything I can do on Cad, I can do just as fast
> > on the board, and I can
> > make a better looking(functional) drawing. Cad has
> > taken the individuality
> > out of piping drawings, and hasn't added one
> > advantage to getting the
> > project done, if you've got good fitters that know
> > how to read a drawing. I
> > can still make 20 spools a day, and when the fitters
> > are done, they can
> > throw those drawings away. The pipe will go in as
> > drawn.
> > I'm an old hand, and miss the old days. The only
> > thing Cad has as an
> > advantage with is drawing storage space. (and
> > sometimes editing, but that
> > depends on who made the original drawing).
> > I know a few who feel the same way, but feel they
> > have to learn Cad, like
> > me. Do you know that engineers coming out of college
> > aren't even required to
> > take drafting anymore. They don't know what they
> > want until they see it on
> > paper, then they send it to the sales reps.
> > Yes, I'm old style, but today at work, the
> > humidity was perfect, and the
> > lead would have made a great looking drawing.
> > <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=c9L_eQnFea-7yaC3huYSpNemwG2B_a8jBvp4Sv2mbk20uint1CtFxyuICkjaMtTjmEnbMLg38dFx2GQ">piper1701@home.com</a>
> >
> >
> > Original Message -----
> > From: "Paul Bowers" <pbowers@pipingdesign.com>
> > To: <PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 6:59 PM
> > Subject: [PipingDesign] Tirade
> >
> >
> > > Is anyone else fed up with CAD as used for piping
> > design?
> > >
> > > Back in the old fart days, a draftsman/designer
> > had all the skills
> > > s/he needed, and was able to move from job to job.
> > Now, the
> > > discipline is fragmented into little slices of
> > Rebis/PDS/PDMS.
> > > Whatever happened to piping design as a
> > discipline, anyway?
> > >
> > > I don't want to start a major argument, but
> > sometimes I'd rather
> > > go back to the board.
> > >
> > > I feel like pitching a competition between a bunch
> > of CAD guys vs.
> > > experienced old-timers. All things being equal, I
> > think I know
> > > who'd win.
> > >
> > > Of course, criteria would have to be set first,
> > taking into
> > > account the advantages and disadvantaged of each
> > team. Any takers?
> > > (think R&D tax credit status)
> > >
> > >
> > > Paul, using my bully pulpit
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____________________
> > > Piping Design Central
> > > [ http://www.PipingDesign.com ]
> > > ________________________________________
> > > We hope you find this newsletter useful.
> > > If not, you can unsubscribe at:
> > > <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=L7JgXIv4JqhYxJDX7r6IrD9tNgZ81WH9Zv-43mb51pDPjiZxFuBXfGk32_6Uqh1nRHy268Unxz3nyS8zjTCi_rbTULQyZs-aih5FIsvAZnoP">PipingDesign-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</a>
> > > Post message: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=usCFM5-OXd7iJYpxfNj0k6pgduoV2WwQVA7rsv7JqUbVvB68M6xtROQQ1bNW8TiECH3NOvqNczRWEOBLaOMSUQEjtQ">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a>
> > > Subscribe: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=fi2XSxYE7_wWQW5GWDda9iyrflGIP12w5gnYiXFolfWyzCCS55d6r7IlmRmYk4whPUPPFgG6pm7FS3hw1neL0-Yi2eR6vOaebMkTtoEvI4M">PipingDesign-subscribe@yahoogroups.com</a>
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > <a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
> <a href="http://auctions.yahoo.com/">http://auctions.yahoo.com/</a>
>
> _____________________
> Piping Design Central
> [ http://www.PipingDesign.com ]
> ________________________________________
> We hope you find this newsletter useful.
> If not, you can unsubscribe at:
> <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=L7JgXIv4JqhYxJDX7r6IrD9tNgZ81WH9Zv-43mb51pDPjiZxFuBXfGk32_6Uqh1nRHy268Unxz3nyS8zjTCi_rbTULQyZs-aih5FIsvAZnoP">PipingDesign-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</a>
> Post message: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=usCFM5-OXd7iJYpxfNj0k6pgduoV2WwQVA7rsv7JqUbVvB68M6xtROQQ1bNW8TiECH3NOvqNczRWEOBLaOMSUQEjtQ">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a>
> Subscribe: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=fi2XSxYE7_wWQW5GWDda9iyrflGIP12w5gnYiXFolfWyzCCS55d6r7IlmRmYk4whPUPPFgG6pm7FS3hw1neL0-Yi2eR6vOaebMkTtoEvI4M">PipingDesign-subscribe@yahoogroups.com</a>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to <a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to <a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Received on Thu May 03 18:29:00 2001
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Tue Mar 04 2008 - 11:40:10 EST