Hi Sare,
What you said was right, the other factors you must considered was outside of
responsible designer i.e., value of contract and revenue, etc. of course the
piping designer just person who sell the skill and ability by presented from
piping iso generated by computer (as like you said) to the paper.
The main important was piping designer can be sync of the paper with the
real-condition, in fact avoid of violence design more difficult.
as piping designer was a professional job, so the basic requirement of piping
designer; it must have broad knowledge of the mechanical eqpt, structural,
electrical, instrument section and safety .... then must know the many pieces of
equipment that must pipe up, numerous details of piping, material necessary for
various services, piping flexibility basics, and field construction practices.
all of the above were needed time and practicing for reach it.
the effect of outside responsible was value of contract self (owner or
contractor), then being controlled/supervised was main important-used when
install or commissioning. more difficult to be piping designer of contractor;
they must adding for balanced value of design and prices. sometimes they
sacrifice/more considered to price than the design. Why ???.
Anyway, many factor to being considered to be implied. that's our jobs, isn't
it.
regards,
<a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=G6rziPPM--HXe_R69JwcrMVMh4tDqGmctLVvGIptDCFY3wQfGwp-D3hSOg67xaJoTk-cTWIIFF6twA">rofinus@telkom.net</a>
> i think a lot of the experince piping designer just wanted to point the
> danger of relying to a nice looking piping iso generated by computer that
> during commissioning or strartup could result in catastrpoic failure .
> because its been done using a computer by some hot shot PDS designer it
> should be right although the guys most probably has not heard about
> compliance to the code requirement.
>
> ive seen a lot of bad design but looks great on paper. the pipe vibrates or
> subject to pulsation, its not properly supported, no accesibility during
> maintenance, branch joint fail to early, proper fitting not installed and so
> on. in petrcohemical thse spell disaster and costly rework not counting
> production loss.
>
> > ----------
> > From: Sharaf F. Al-Sharif[SMTP:alsharif@bushnak.com]
> > Reply To: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=CAy_03Fz6K4ywy_GxkUQ6kIhnI1xWreaDg3G3YUvw9CVSqt_lgSxKOcn450s-_iPrt4VTvYj64v9__lYHxHaicqwocSb">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a>
> > Sent: 14 May, 2001 5:21 PM
> > To: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=CAy_03Fz6K4ywy_GxkUQ6kIhnI1xWreaDg3G3YUvw9CVSqt_lgSxKOcn450s-_iPrt4VTvYj64v9__lYHxHaicqwocSb">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a>
> > Subject: RE: [PipingDesign] RE: TIRADE
> >
> > Hello Group
> >
> > Before I begin I would like to explain my background so you can understand
> > where I'm coming from.
> > I am a young mechanical engineer (approx. 2 years since graduation and
> > employment) living in a completely different region of the planet where
> > engineering practice and the relevant regulations on it are not so well
> > developed. I try to compensate by reading books, technical journals, and
> > the
> > like, and by surfing the net and joining discussion lists (lurking for the
> > most part) to try to find out how people do things in other places.
> > That being said, I hope you forgive me if I ask questions that are obvious
> > to you. First, I have been following this thread for some time now, and
> > have
> > had some trouble understanding the logic in some instances. Why, for
> > example, should we blame CAD if inexperienced youngsters (like me?) are
> > assigned responsibilites that they are not ready for. Would the problem be
> > solved if we trained them to use drawing boards instead? Or maybe the
> > problem would be solved when these CAD operators become old with "grey
> > beards". Then they can complain about how these youngsters using VRAD, or
> > whatever they come up with by then, are so incompetent in piping design,
> > and
> > how they can do anything just as good with AutoCAD 2034.
> > By the same token, I don't see how "anyone can get a".. drawing board..
> > "to
> > go out to the field, with a hard hat and metatarsal boots, and take
> > dimensions, weld to weld, and can figure out centerlines from a sketch",
> > so
> > why should we expect a PC to do so?
> >
> > I think the wrong thin is being blamed here. Maybe the seniors shoud have
> > realized the potential in CADD and been quicker in learning and adopting
> > it.
> > (Now I know that if I someday regard myself as senior and am faced with a
> > new technology, I'd better be humble enough to sit and learn it with the
> > youngsters.) Maybe management should have been wiser by investing more in
> > training these youngsters and giving them more exposure time before
> > assigning responsibility. Maybe you guys would do good by spending your
> > years before retirement on that, instead of complaining. (Or maybe there's
> > consulting potential for you in that after retiring ;-))
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Sharaf F. Al-Sharif
> > Desalination Process Engineer
> > Bushnak Group
> > PO Box 13744
> > Jeddah 21414
> > Saudi Arabia
> > <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=bJrS-Whm2OWGeVzfWGzQgTJWZeA-kaihUSJuNJSm4eglhMYPWc3HJtd9wB9ijCW118E-3DKgnkuuvl56gKA">alsharif@bushnak.com</a>
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Darrel Marshall [mailto:piper82072@yahoo.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 4:18 AM
> > > To: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=CAy_03Fz6K4ywy_GxkUQ6kIhnI1xWreaDg3G3YUvw9CVSqt_lgSxKOcn450s-_iPrt4VTvYj64v9__lYHxHaicqwocSb">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a>
> > > Subject: Re: [PipingDesign] RE: TIRADE
> > >
> > > Thanks Paul for bringing this Cad subject up a
> > > couple a weeks ago. I was one of the first to reply,
> > > and have been following it daily. I still believe that
> > > grey beards are going to take the piping discipline
> > > and retire with the knowledge, and a few years from
> > > now the good pipe fitters are going to up and quit.
> > > The Cad "drafters" coming out of school have no
> > > knowledge of how to make a functional readable
> > > drawing, and the companies hiring them for $8/hr. are
> > > going to have a big mess in the years to come.
> > > I have learned Autocad and Raster and Imaging
> > > because I had to. I'm self taught to use a new tool.
> > > So be it. But, until anyone can get a PC to go out to
> > > the field, with a hard hat and metatarsal boots, and
> > > take dimensions, weld to weld, and can figure out
> > > centerlines from a sketch, I will always believe in my
> > > experience. And, I will pass on that knowledge to
> > > anybody who wants to learn. A computer will mate a
> > > 125# cast iron pump flange to a 150# steel R.F.W.N.,
> > > but I won't.
> > > Pipers rule. Don't tell anyone how easy it is, or
> > > else everyone will want to do it.
> > >
> > > Darrel
> > > <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=N7302RqJ1cEWQtfQPIcVSqHUm405qBA7q0ni_kNixTi_F_D2_pT66H85ycYRfFJSnE8qXrFYX3YU8c56dnSl">piper82072@yahoo.com</a>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
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> > > <a href="http://auctions.yahoo.com/">http://auctions.yahoo.com/</a>
> > >
> > >
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> > _____________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Received on Wed May 16 12:31:00 2001
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