Re: CUI Part 2

Another factor to be considered when using organic based materials such as polyurethane, cellulosic molded foam, and cellular elastomer is they are combustible materials. Some of the chemical firms we work for will not allow their use in any area other then that classified as "general purpose". These materials can add to "flame spread", "fuel contribution" and "smoke (or toxic fume) generation". Also the use of PVC jacketing is classified as a combustible.

• Original Message ----- From: <geoff.stone@lendlease.com.au> To: <PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 6:55 PM Subject: RE: [PipingDesign] CUI Part 2

>
>
> My experience has been that foamglass is primarily used for services where
if a
> fluid leaks spontaneous combustion would occur. many years ago I used
foamglass
> where on heat transfer fluid lines. The client was concerned that if the
> material leaked into a fibre material then the increase in surface area
afforded
> by the fibres would accelerate flashing. Some experience in the USA had
pin
> pointed this as the cause of a fire.
>
> Foamed polyurethane insulation that is factory applied will create a
natural
> vapour barrier as it adheres to the surface of the pipe. then one only has
to
> worry about the joints and the vapour seal.
>
> Of course you have to worry about a vapour seal at 100C. When the line is
> shutdown the vapour condenses and accelerates corrosion.
>
> I dont know what specifically you mean by a nomex garment. In the LPG
compressor
> stations I have worked on th eoperators and fitters were required to were
> boilersuits that did not cause a spark by generating static.
>
>
>
>
> "SARE, RALPH H." <SARERH@YANPET.SABIC.com> on 27/06/2001 19:38:40
>
> Please respond to <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=WkV34XEkHprV4NsLaWnPmW6l6Cftll6j0S8keB3D1QRIonx5x4KH75fK-K-W1JyHxTFGofhjDOGCbXTG61DAQH8I-Bsy5w">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a>
>
> To: "'PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com'" <PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com>
> cc:
>
> Subject: RE: [PipingDesign] CUI Part 2
>
>
> Right. We have replace a lot of our insulation both for cold and hot
service
> with foamglass
> ----------
>
>
> but mostly for tanks, columsn and vessels. We're still
> partial to mineral wool (pre-fromed) for piping but only for hot service.
> Ever heard of insulation "punking"?
>
> This leads me to the other question. Do we need to apply a primer on an
> insulated pipe spool for hot service (above 100degC)?
>
> Everett - since u work in a chemical indusrty, do u require your crafts to
> wear a nomex garments while working inside the plant (or in the workshop)
> say to break a flange, do some welding or say performing a hydro jetting?
(i
> dont know if its mandatory under the osha rules in the us of a) Does it
also
> apply to outside contractor?
>
> > ----------
> > From: EVERETT W. NICHOLS[SMTP:enichols@bbtel.com]
> > Reply To: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=WkV34XEkHprV4NsLaWnPmW6l6Cftll6j0S8keB3D1QRIonx5x4KH75fK-K-W1JyHxTFGofhjDOGCbXTG61DAQH8I-Bsy5w">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a>
> > Sent: 26 June, 2001 7:51 PM
> > To: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=WkV34XEkHprV4NsLaWnPmW6l6Cftll6j0S8keB3D1QRIonx5x4KH75fK-K-W1JyHxTFGofhjDOGCbXTG61DAQH8I-Bsy5w">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a>
> > Subject: Re: [PipingDesign] CUI Part 2
> >
> > Coming from the chemical processing industry, I have seen some effects
of
> > SCC. One of the best ways to ward this off is to use a closed cell
> > insulation - such as foamglas. We have found this material to perform
very
> > well even at high temperatures 600 degree plus. The hi-temp foam glass
is
> > expensive but in some situations is worth the cost. The impervious
nature
> > of
> > foamglas makes it ideal. You do got to make sure to seal all the joints
> > very
> > well with cloride free mastic. Another approach is to apply a coating on
> > the
> > S/S such as: silicone type epoxy amine paint.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: SARE, RALPH H. <SARERH@YANPET.SABIC.com>
> > To: <PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 4:51 AM
> > Subject: [PipingDesign] CUI Part 2
> >
> >
> > > The following was taken from ASTM STP 880 by Pollock and Barnhart.
> > >
> > >
> > > Very serious corrosion problems can occur to plant equipment and
piping
> > > components that are thermally insulated if the insulation becomes wet.
> > > On carbon steels, the corrosion is usually of genral or pitting type.
On
> > > stainless steels, the corrosiion is almost always SCC.. The isnualtion
> > > usually hides the corrosidng metal and the problem can go undetedcted
> > for
> > > years u ntil metal failure occurs.
> > >
> > > To complicate the problem, the degree of corrosion when insulation
gets
> > wet
> > > is dependendt on the type of insulation. Inspection for the problem is
> > also
> > > difficult Determning the the metal has corroded under the insualtion
is
> > not
> > > widely available.
> > >
> > > The STP also touches on the subject related to SCC and the effect of
> > service
> > > temp. Here are some.
> > >
> > > Service TEmp is important in CUI for 2 reasons
> > > 1. higher temp allows water to be present againts the steel for less
> > time
> > > 2. higher temp make the water more corrosive, and paints and caulking
> > fail
> > > sooner.
> > > generally, equipment that operates below freezing is protected againts
> > > corrosion. Howveer, attachment to the equipment which are not as cold
> > are
> > > vulnerable in the transiiton out of the vapor barririer into warm
humid
> > air.
> > > Cororsion associated with equipment below freezing temp is corrosion
> > outside
> > > of, not under insulation
> > >
> > > Corrosion under warm inuslation is equally difficult to manage due to
> > dry
> > > out of entering water. Summary of the study showed that:
> > > 1. temp range of 60 and 80C appears to account for the gretaest amount
> > of
> > > damage.
> > > 2. on very warm equipment even with small weatherporffoing defects,
> > > coorosion tends to be at the oint of entry of water.
> > > 3. annual corrosion rate amy exceed 1.5 mm per year.
> > >
> > > Guys, the problem is real and will cost a lot of dollars to detect and
> > > repair. The report further stated that there are seven contributing
> > factors
> > > to CUI. Top on the list is, now hear this, "equipment design".
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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Received on Fri Jun 29 09:42:00 2001