Dear Group,
Is there not a better way of receiving these digest mails. It is a jumble of questions repeated upteen number of times with everybody's answers. Can somebody devise a report format that will condense it into neat text excluding all those unwanted email trails.
Sajit Viswan
Parsons
Kuwait
----- Original Message -----
From: <PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com>
To: <PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 10:19 PM
Subject: [PipingDesign] Digest Number 650
Texas Flange - a good source for information on industrial flanges, all they
ask is for referrals for designs they help with.
877-610-8924.
www.texasflange.com
There are 13 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:10:25 +0100 From: "James, Barbara" <bjames@mitsuibabcock.com> Subject: RE: Recommended maximum flow velocity
Samuel
Thank you for your reply. The concern with the CO2 line is erosion rather than pressure losses.
I am somewhat confused by your formula, the units appear to be SQRT(m^3/kg) which I can't reconcile with a velocity (m/sec). Is there any more to this equation? If you have a reference for it, would you be kind enough to post details?
Thanks again for your help, and sorry to appear to be nit picking, but my client will want to see some sort of basis.
Regards
Barbara
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Samuel Liu [mailto:samuel.liu@amec.com]
> Sent: 16 September 2002 14:38
> To: 'PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [PipingDesign] Recommended maximum flow velocity
>
>
>
> For general engineering process design, there is almost no
> fixed limitation
> on velocity value. That will vary from different system
> design, i.e., on the
> allowable delta P. For gas pipeline, the velocity should be
> always less than
> the erosional velocity which is 122/Sqrt(density) in SI unit system.
>
> Regards,
>
> Samuel Liu
>
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:20:25 -0500 From: "Bruce Bullough" <bbullough@sebesta.com> Subject: RE: Recommended maximum flow velocity
If you get no other response, I suggest turning to Crane (Technical paper 410, Flow of Fluids). Pages 3-16 and 3-17 have a nomograph for velocities of compressible fluids in pipe.
... Bruce D. Bullough ...
Sebesta Blomberg & Associates
2381 Rosegate
Roseville, MN 55113
651-634-7344 (office)
651-634-7400 (FAX)
www.sebesta.com
-----Original Message-----
From: James, Barbara [mailto:bjames@mitsuibabcock.com]
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 3:35 AM
To: 'PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [PipingDesign] Recommended maximum flow velocity
Good morning all
Many thanks to those who gave me advice on finding the dimensions of reducers, I had to resort to measuring them in the end. The B and C indices in ASME NB are quite sensitive to the cone angle so it was a worthwhile exercise
Now, that I have finished the mechanical design, the client has decided to revisit the process design! There is some debate on what the maximum flow velocity should be, does anybody here know anywhere that I can find recommended maximum flow velocities? The fluid is CO2 at 250°C and 29barg.
Thanks
Barbara
If you have received this E-Mail in error please return it to the
sender.
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copies of it.
It is your responsibility to scan any attachments for viruses.
For further information, visit us at WWW.MITSUIBABCOCK.COM
Texas Flange - a good source for information on industrial flanges, all they
ask is for referrals for designs they help with.
877-610-8924.
www.texasflange.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to <a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a>
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 07:19:40 -0700 From: Samuel Liu <samuel.liu@amec.com> Subject: RE: Recommended maximum flow velocity
Barbara:
I don't know which industrial field you are at now. For example, if you are in the field of offshore, please refer to API RP14E.
Regards,
Samuel
-----Original Message-----
From: James, Barbara [mailto:bjames@mitsuibabcock.com]
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 8:10 AM
To: 'PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [PipingDesign] Recommended maximum flow velocity
Samuel
Thank you for your reply. The concern with the CO2 line is erosion rather than pressure losses.
I am somewhat confused by your formula, the units appear to be SQRT(m^3/kg) which I can't reconcile with a velocity (m/sec). Is there any more to this equation? If you have a reference for it, would you be kind enough to post details?
Thanks again for your help, and sorry to appear to be nit picking, but my client will want to see some sort of basis.
Regards
Barbara
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Samuel Liu [mailto:samuel.liu@amec.com]
> Sent: 16 September 2002 14:38
> To: 'PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [PipingDesign] Recommended maximum flow velocity
>
>
>
> For general engineering process design, there is almost no
> fixed limitation
> on velocity value. That will vary from different system
> design, i.e., on the
> allowable delta P. For gas pipeline, the velocity should be
> always less than
> the erosional velocity which is 122/Sqrt(density) in SI unit system.
>
> Regards,
>
> Samuel Liu
>
If you have received this E-Mail in error please return it to the
sender.
We should be grateful if you would also copy the communication to
<a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=cSRTTfgJRoNn8hA9Rk27SJWMeKL06RvfyTtpjsCuOPSPcu3oK0VlAdBT1R4rTyTLV2u29H6XFjd_SX8IrlE4ktNdvotq">postmaster@mitsuibabcock.com</a> then delete the E-Mail and destroy any
copies of it.
It is your responsibility to scan any attachments for viruses.
For further information, visit us at WWW.MITSUIBABCOCK.COM
Texas Flange - a good source for information on industrial flanges, all they
ask is for referrals for designs they help with.
877-610-8924.
www.texasflange.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to <a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a>
The information contained in this e-mail is intended only for the individual
or entity
to whom it is addressed. Its contents (including any attachments) are
confidential and
may contain privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient
you must not
use, disclose, disseminate, copy or print its contents. If you receive this
e-mail in
error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete and destroy the
message.
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:36:34 +0100 From: "James, Barbara" <bjames@mitsuibabcock.com> Subject: RE: Recommended maximum flow velocity
Samuel
Thanks for the reference, the field I am working in is the nuclear industry. I can't find anything in ASME III NB regarding flow velocities. I'm not sure if it will be anywhere in ASME III and I don't recollect seeing it in B31.1 or B31.3, but I am ready to be corrected.
Regards
Barbara
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Samuel Liu [mailto:samuel.liu@amec.com]
> Sent: 16 September 2002 15:20
> To: 'PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [PipingDesign] Recommended maximum flow velocity
>
>
>
> Barbara:
>
> I don't know which industrial field you are at now. For
> example, if you are
> in the field of offshore, please refer to API RP14E.
>
> Regards,
>
> Samuel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James, Barbara [mailto:bjames@mitsuibabcock.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 8:10 AM
> To: 'PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [PipingDesign] Recommended maximum flow velocity
>
>
> Samuel
>
> Thank you for your reply. The concern with the CO2 line is erosion
> rather than pressure losses.
>
> I am somewhat confused by your formula, the units appear to be
> SQRT(m^3/kg) which I can't reconcile with a velocity (m/sec).
> Is there
> any more to this equation? If you have a reference for it,
> would you be
> kind enough to post details?
>
> Thanks again for your help, and sorry to appear to be nit picking, but
> my client will want to see some sort of basis.
>
> Regards
>
> Barbara
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Samuel Liu [mailto:samuel.liu@amec.com]
> > Sent: 16 September 2002 14:38
> > To: 'PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com'
> > Subject: RE: [PipingDesign] Recommended maximum flow velocity
> >
> >
> >
> > For general engineering process design, there is almost no
> > fixed limitation
> > on velocity value. That will vary from different system
> > design, i.e., on the
> > allowable delta P. For gas pipeline, the velocity should be
> > always less than
> > the erosional velocity which is 122/Sqrt(density) in SI unit system.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Samuel Liu
> >
>
>
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> - - - - -
> -
> IMPORTANT NOTICE
>
> This E-Mail and any files transmitted with it, are
> confidential and for
> the
> exclusive use of the intended recipient(s).
> If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form
> of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the
> information in it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
>
> If you have received this E-Mail in error please return it to the
> sender.
> We should be grateful if you would also copy the communication to
> postmaster@mitsuibabcock.com then delete the E-Mail and destroy any
> copies of it.
>
> It is your responsibility to scan any attachments for viruses.
>
> For further information, visit us at WWW.MITSUIBABCOCK.COM
>
>
>
> Texas Flange - a good source for information on industrial
> flanges, all they
> ask is for referrals for designs they help with.
> 877-610-8924.
> www.texasflange.com
> =====================================================
> unsubscribe: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=xrMr-493IU_dYQj_ZwKn4qtCsgfCEbr8GcGUKOVhBQlmNRwV8_XyMGzrXUoHgf3dcb0YgDDKkHEiMPLGRhfKQ7fnKy6SLL76txosis5X">PipingDesign-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</a>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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The information contained in this e-mail is intended only for the
individual or entity
to whom it is addressed. Its contents (including any attachments) are
confidential and
may contain privileged information. If you are not an intended
recipient you must not
use, disclose, disseminate, copy or print its contents. If you receive
this e-mail in
error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete and destroy
the message.
Texas Flange - a good source for information on industrial flanges, all
they ask is for referrals for designs they help with.
877-610-8924.
www.texasflange.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
<a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a>
If you have received this E-Mail in error please return it to the
sender.
We should be grateful if you would also copy the communication to
<a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=cSRTTfgJRoNn8hA9Rk27SJWMeKL06RvfyTtpjsCuOPSPcu3oK0VlAdBT1R4rTyTLV2u29H6XFjd_SX8IrlE4ktNdvotq">postmaster@mitsuibabcock.com</a> then delete the E-Mail and destroy any
copies of it.
It is your responsibility to scan any attachments for viruses.
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:44:23 +0100 From: "James, Barbara" <bjames@mitsuibabcock.com> Subject: RE: Recommended maximum flow velocity
Bruce
Thanks for finding the pages in Crane, I have checked our calculated velocities against the table of reasonable velocities for flow of steam on page 3-16, under most operating conditions the velocities fall into the recommended range. I hope that will be sufficient to satisfy the client...
Regards
Barbara
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Bullough [mailto:bbullough@sebesta.com]
> Sent: 16 September 2002 15:20
> To: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=DbjMi0wDCYvBT75Jxi41Y6iViBoIafEqzhVQNMC8ontGvow_GPpg_U_O2d0mTmDQ0RidGAX7VhzzyJnZcFjEr4ye9I_bl68">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a>
> Subject: RE: [PipingDesign] Recommended maximum flow velocity
>
>
> If you get no other response, I suggest turning to Crane
> (Technical paper 410, Flow of Fluids). Pages 3-16 and 3-17
> have a nomograph for velocities of compressible fluids in pipe.
>
> ... Bruce D. Bullough ...
> Sebesta Blomberg & Associates
> 2381 Rosegate
> Roseville, MN 55113
> 651-634-7344 (office)
> 651-634-7400 (FAX)
> www.sebesta.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James, Barbara [mailto:bjames@mitsuibabcock.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 3:35 AM
> To: 'PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: [PipingDesign] Recommended maximum flow velocity
>
>
> Good morning all
>
> Many thanks to those who gave me advice on finding the dimensions of
> reducers, I had to resort to measuring them in the end. The B and C
> indices in ASME NB are quite sensitive to the cone angle so it was a
> worthwhile exercise
>
> Now, that I have finished the mechanical design, the client
> has decided
> to revisit the process design! There is some debate on what
> the maximum
> flow velocity should be, does anybody here know anywhere that
> I can find
> recommended maximum flow velocities? The fluid is CO2 at 250°C and
> 29barg.
>
> Thanks
>
> Barbara
>
>
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> - - - - -
> -
> IMPORTANT NOTICE
>
> This E-Mail and any files transmitted with it, are
> confidential and for
> the
> exclusive use of the intended recipient(s).
> If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form
> of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the
> information in it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
>
> If you have received this E-Mail in error please return it to the
> sender.
> We should be grateful if you would also copy the communication to
> postmaster@mitsuibabcock.com then delete the E-Mail and destroy any
> copies of it.
>
> It is your responsibility to scan any attachments for viruses.
>
> For further information, visit us at WWW.MITSUIBABCOCK.COM
>
>
>
> Texas Flange - a good source for information on industrial
> flanges, all they ask is for referrals for designs they help with.
> 877-610-8924.
> www.texasflange.com
> =====================================================
> unsubscribe: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=xrMr-493IU_dYQj_ZwKn4qtCsgfCEbr8GcGUKOVhBQlmNRwV8_XyMGzrXUoHgf3dcb0YgDDKkHEiMPLGRhfKQ7fnKy6SLL76txosis5X">PipingDesign-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</a>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
<a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a>
Texas Flange - a good source for information on industrial flanges, all
they ask is for referrals for designs they help with.
877-610-8924.
www.texasflange.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
<a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a>
If you have received this E-Mail in error please return it to the
sender.
We should be grateful if you would also copy the communication to
<a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=cSRTTfgJRoNn8hA9Rk27SJWMeKL06RvfyTtpjsCuOPSPcu3oK0VlAdBT1R4rTyTLV2u29H6XFjd_SX8IrlE4ktNdvotq">postmaster@mitsuibabcock.com</a> then delete the E-Mail and destroy any
copies of it.
It is your responsibility to scan any attachments for viruses.
For further information, visit us at WWW.MITSUIBABCOCK.COM
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:26:28 +0530 From: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=VzYFDwc2HLQTVo6qJ7pu6xZhpIzIk5a5N0R5_Q16UAD0Yq4eecjq6jPjeHro1IZkMaMr75TmJbbEeQ">Sachin_Bapat@ril.com</a> Subject: RE: EXPANSION STRESS RANGE
Piping code B31.3 gives value of expansion stress range as follows
Sa=f((1.25(Sc +Sh) - Sl)
where Sc ,Sh, Sl,f have their usal meaning as defined in code.
My query is
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:28:00 +0530 From: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=VzYFDwc2HLQTVo6qJ7pu6xZhpIzIk5a5N0R5_Q16UAD0Yq4eecjq6jPjeHro1IZkMaMr75TmJbbEeQ">Sachin_Bapat@ril.com</a> Subject: RE: CREEP ANALYSIS
Can anybody suggest some of softwares which deals with creep analysis.
Regards
Sachin Bapat
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:20:15 +1000 From: Conor Walshe <conor.walshe@alceng.com> Subject: RE: EXPANSION STRESS RANGE
If I can remember or interpret correctly... here you go
for expansion
Sa = f(1.25Sc + 0.25 Sh)......................1 which is the original of Sa=f((1.25(Sc +Sh) - Sl) ................2
i.e. add Sh - Sl to 0.25 Sh
So here it is:
The higest value for Sa is when Sh is it's greatest allowable, i.e. = Sc
Therefore
Sa = f(1.25Sc + 0.25 Sc) = f(1.5Sc)
max f = 1.0
Max Sa = 1.5Sc whcih is equal to the Specified minimum Yield strength
i.e. Sc is taken as 2/3 of Specified minimum Yield strength or a fraction of the Specified minimum Tensile strength
So basically the formula is designed to never produce a figure above the Specified minimum Yield strength of the material and takes into consideration the effects on the allowables due to temperature.
Now, this is just my interpretation
-----Original Message-----
From: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=VzYFDwc2HLQTVo6qJ7pu6xZhpIzIk5a5N0R5_Q16UAD0Yq4eecjq6jPjeHro1IZkMaMr75TmJbbEeQ">Sachin_Bapat@ril.com</a> [mailto:<a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=VzYFDwc2HLQTVo6qJ7pu6xZhpIzIk5a5N0R5_Q16UAD0Yq4eecjq6jPjeHro1IZkMaMr75TmJbbEeQ">Sachin_Bapat@ril.com</a>]
Sent: Tuesday, 17 September 2002 12:56
To: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=DbjMi0wDCYvBT75Jxi41Y6iViBoIafEqzhVQNMC8ontGvow_GPpg_U_O2d0mTmDQ0RidGAX7VhzzyJnZcFjEr4ye9I_bl68">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a>
Subject: RE: [PipingDesign] EXPANSION STRESS RANGE
Importance: High
Piping code B31.3 gives value of expansion stress range as follows
Sa=f((1.25(Sc +Sh) - Sl)
where Sc ,Sh, Sl,f have their usal meaning as defined in code.
My query is
Texas Flange - a good source for information on industrial flanges, all they
ask is for referrals for designs they help with.
877-610-8924.
www.texasflange.com
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