Re: 3D CAD Equipment Models
- In PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com, "Steve McKenzie" <Mechproj@x>
wrote:
> Hi Paul
>
> it appears you have "stumbled" onto a way for this group to pay
its bills.
> Plenty of CAD resource and plenty of market. We supply, for a
price,
> passive interactive 3D models, according to vendors drawings, of
equipment
> which the vendor then includes as part of his sales package. The
vendor pays
> for the model, and assumes liability. Is this your drift? If so
10/10 and
> thank heavens I have absolutely no CAD ability whatsoever.
>
> Strike while the irons hot.
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve McKenzie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Bowers [mailto:pbowers@p...]
> Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 10:57 PM
> To: PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PipingDesign] 3D CAD Equipment Models
>
>
> Thanks for the input, CV, great comments. PDS and PDMS are the
Ferraris of
> plant design, and from what I've heard, those that use them would
never even
> consider an AutoCAD-based solution.
>
> But companies that cannot afford the large up-front
purchase/rental and
> maintenance (I.E., specialized support personnel) costs of these
programs
> are not likely to use them. They are just too complicated and
expensive to
> acquire. These are programs for "the big boys" only, the companies
that can
> afford to spend the bucks.
>
> ACAD-based solutions, on the other hand, are quite comparatively
affordable
> and there is a huge user base out there (PDS/PDMS is pretty much a
closed
> shop). Even the lowest level Pentium4 or AMD Athlon chip with
enough
> inexpensive RAM and a decent graphics card can now run AutoCAD in
3D quite
> easily. Yes, I know that AutoCAD and MS Windows have their
limitations.
>
> In particular, I'm thinking about smaller consulting firms that
bid on
> projects (or upgrades to existing facilities) but are shut out
because of
> "incompatible software".
>
> Paul
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gang Cvg" <cvg_gang@y...>
> To: <PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 8:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [PipingDesign] 3D CAD Equipment Models
>
>
> > Dear Paul,
> > I have over 34 years of experience and am attached to
> > a detailed plant model engineering consultancy
> > organization catering to the hydrocarbon sector
> > (essentially refineries). We are in the business of
> > designing 3D plant models and extract all the required
> > working deliverables, like GADs, isometrics and MTOs
> > in 2D formats. During the last 7 years we have
> > executed more than a dozen processing plants through
> > this route. Our system is Intergraph's PDS (Plant
> > Design System). Here, the piping engineering
> > department, to which I belong, caters to almost all
> > the 3D modelling activities, starting from the
> > foundations, underground piping and equipments to the
> > above ground piping and on-line instruments, including
> > pipe supports. Our clients are quite happy with the
> > outcome and the result is that we are loaded with jobs
> > slightly beyond our dispensing capabilities.
> > PDS supports all the needs to a great extent.
> > regarding off-spec items, a thorough customization
> > exercise has to be taken up in the beginning. Then the
> > database takes care of the items and all get accounted
> > for in the final download of material take off. Our
> > judgement is that this system is adequate for our
> > needs. It need a responsible person to do the
> > administration of the project in the PDS set-up.
> > There is equally powerfull software called PDMS
> > serviced by CADCENTRE also available in the market. We
> > had done some evaluation of this software as well.
> > To begin with, we had Autoplant, which was
> > subsequently discarded due to various reasons. It is
> > rather difficult for Autoplant (Rebis) to support a
> > very large database which a plant demands.
> > Please give a thought to what I have mentioned and
> > decide your course of action. Lining up a third party
> > to do the detailing work needs a dynamic connectivity
> > (leased line) of the central database at the home
> > office as well as at the agency's office. Often this
> > may end up in sharing the intellectual property.
> > Handling the revisions in due course of engineering
> > also needs attention.
>
> > --- Paul Bowers <pbowers@p...> wrote:
> > > Is anyone aware of a third party company that
> > > creates and sells 3D models of
> > > process equipment?
> > >
> > > I've only worked with Rebis, which has a package
> > > option with which designers
> > > can customize various parameters of common equipment
> > > (centrifugal pumps,
> > > tanks, towers/reboilers, etc.) to create a model
> > > that can be inserted into
> > > the overall model. The piping connections have
> > > "connectivity" built-in, so
> > > that the finished model "knows" the spec of the
> > > connection and when running
> > > piping up to the nozzle, it auto-connects and
> > > returns an error message if
> > > the pipe spec doesn't match with the equipment spec.
> > > This is fine for the
> > > more common pieces one sees in process plants, but
> > > equipment used in pulp
> > > and paper or mining operations (for example) don't
> > > fit into the available,
> > > customizeable components. This means that these
> > > elements have to be created
> > > in straight 3D AutoCAD by a fairly proficient
> > > modeller - who may or may not
> > > be a piping/mechanical person - and the end result
> > > has no "connectivity".
> > >
> > > It would seem to be worthwhile for equipment
> > > manufacturers to provide these
> > > models themselves, but maybe it's seen as not being
> > > cost-effective. After
> > > all, a process engineer is not going to spec a piece
> > > of equipment purely
> > > based on whether it has a CAD model available. And
> > > for a third-party company
> > > to expend the time, effort and money also seems to
> > > be a non-starter, as such
> > > models would likely be easily copied without having
> > > to pay the developer.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts?
>
>
>
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Received on Fri Dec 06 22:18:00 2002
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