Just about everyone I know is talented and hardworking - the problem is
it is not always easy to find work in the same area as your true talent.
Anyone want to do a process job on the cheap - let me know I'll put together 20 people who can do the work of 50 for the price of 30.
Paul Hawco
Mechanical Engineer
Neill & Gunter (Nova Scotia) Limited
<a href="http://www.neillandgunter.com">http://www.neillandgunter.com</a> <<a href="http://www.neillandgunter.com/">http://www.neillandgunter.com/</a>>
-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Wolfe [mailto:aaronwolfeman@hotmail.com]
Sent: March 5, 2004 12:23 PM
To: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=re3qOLZv4uURBWau3QWvjMHY5Jxe-UDITbRX00VG-kaBVq_rgXOd4DvBaXMhMiVoaeBlz_Q6cjL8lLkZdBF2KqNiIg">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a>
Subject: RE: [PipingDesign] Rant on Engineering
[text][bcc][faked-from][bayes]
<<mostly very talented and hardworking just like society as a
whole.>>
I agree with you on the stereotype thing....but stereotypes are
not just
thought up to be degrading, there is usually truth behind them
deep
down.
I don't know what society you are living in, but finding one,
much less
a group, of talented and hardworking people in society is like
finding a
needle in a haystack. I apologize in advance for my cynicism...
Regards,
Aaron Wolfe
Piping Designer
Paul Mueller Company
P.O. Box 828
Springfield, Mo 65801
(417) 575-9780
E-mail: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=ae_wB5tdJ4LXBfmS37VcNljRlJ4tSEAijrijGNc4dIZEUXTCTdC_9vYXXY_s_AKJRaapQmQMMw">awolfe@muel.com</a>
-----Original Message-----
From: Hawco, Paul R. [mailto:PHawco@NGNS.com]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 10:03 AM
To: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=re3qOLZv4uURBWau3QWvjMHY5Jxe-UDITbRX00VG-kaBVq_rgXOd4DvBaXMhMiVoaeBlz_Q6cjL8lLkZdBF2KqNiIg">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a>
Subject: RE: [PipingDesign] Rant on Engineering
[text][bcc][faked-from][bayes]
Bruce,
Thanks for your comments.
I've had some experience with a unionized design office - big
mistake in
my opinion and not something I want to be involved with again
anytime
soon.
My sister is a lawyer working in a social services environment
and a
couple of good friends are doctors - they all work very hard.
We have
to be careful not to stereotype any group - they are all a
collection of
varied individuals - mostly very talented and hardworking just
like
society as a whole.
Paul Hawco
Mechanical Engineer
Neill & Gunter (Nova Scotia) Limited
http://www.neillandgunter.com <http://www.neillandgunter.com/>
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Bullough [mailto:bbullough@sebesta.com]
Sent: March 5, 2004 11:46 AM
To: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=re3qOLZv4uURBWau3QWvjMHY5Jxe-UDITbRX00VG-kaBVq_rgXOd4DvBaXMhMiVoaeBlz_Q6cjL8lLkZdBF2KqNiIg">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a>
Subject: RE: [PipingDesign] Rant on Engineering
[text][bcc][faked-from][bayes]
I think you have hit on a couple things here. There are
personality
traits that are more typical of engineers than the more
"glamorous"
professions like law: engineers tend to be introverted.
An
introverted
lawyer doesn't get very far or get recognition. Although
I
believe
there are way too many lawyers in the world and
particularly in
N.
America, I have to give 'em credit for something that we
get
little
credit or recognition for. they are often required to do
a
percentage
of "pro bono" work. The world knows about it. No one
knows
about the
"pro bono" work engineers do (I've done 5-10% for years),
and
they
probably don't care, because, as you said, no one knows
what we
do.
Most people are afraid of math and science by the time
they
reach their
mid-teenage years, so if we try to explain something, they
just
get
glassy eyed and wander off. Our personality and
motivators are
such
that a union is unlikely to work. We could use some good
PR
(public
relations - advertising!).
Here in the US, we are paying to cover the cost of the
vast
majority of
medical and pharmaceutical R&D in the world, and with the
open
litigation policies, medical doctors' insurance costs are
so
high that
many of them now net less income than many engineers.
Lawyers
have the
2nd highest rate of job dis-satisfaction (just behind
dentists).
There
are a lot more out-of-work lawyers than engineers (by
total
numbers and
by percentage); we have a part-time receptionist who has
passed
the bar
and can't find work as a lawyer.
We do need to stop the underbidding to buy the work,
though. No
one
benefits from that. I do not understand the philosophy,
unless
we
believe that our work is just a load of commodity.
Clients
always
complain about the cost, but if they want you because of
your
ability or
reputation, they will be willing to pay more. The
engineering
cost
fraction of an installed project is of little consequence.
After all is said and done, I personally would become an
engineer again
if I had the chance to start over. It's the best fit for
me.
... Bruce D. Bullough ...
Sebesta Blomberg & Associates
2381 Rosegate
Roseville, MN 55113 USA
651-634-7344 direct
651-634-7400 FAX
www.sebesta.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Hawco, Paul R. [mailto:PHawco@NGNS.com]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:26 AM
To: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=re3qOLZv4uURBWau3QWvjMHY5Jxe-UDITbRX00VG-kaBVq_rgXOd4DvBaXMhMiVoaeBlz_Q6cjL8lLkZdBF2KqNiIg">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a>
Subject: [PipingDesign] Rant on Engineering
[text][bcc][faked-from][bayes]
What's the difference between Doctors, Lawyers and
Engineers?
-
Exposure and Perception.
TV and Hollywood (and I bet Baliwood too) love to tell
stories
about
Doctors and Lawyers - the storylines are simple and
everyone can
understand.
We have no real promotional body - that's the root of our
problem. What
do we have? - an Engineering week that only some engineers
actually know
about and very few participate in. If it wasn't for the
Discovery
Channel (that only engineers, math and science majors
watch
anyway) we'd
be completely ignored. There hasn't been a good engineer
on TV
since
Star Trek's "Mr. Scott". In today's world kids feel Math
is
not
important - Schools and University's are bending over
backwards
to come
up with programs that exclude Math - and we say nothing.
When I go to a party and have to introduce myself, I say
I'm an
Engineer
working in Oil and Gas Design - short and sweet - If I
tried to
describe
what I really do I'd be getting nothing but blank faces -
they
would not
understand - Engineering is too broad. I bet you do the
same.
Let me
take that a little further - no one in my family - not my
Wife,
Mom,
Dad, Brothers, Sisters or any of my close friends really
know
what I do
I was at a conference a few years back and the topic came
up -
How do
you make money in Engineering? - My response "Sell all the
companies
assets and invest in Microsoft". Even with the tech bust
if you
look at
the numbers since 98 you'd probably find that would have
been a
more
profitable path for most engineering companies. Why is it
like
this?
My clients are Oil and Gas companies, all making money
like
never before
We should be saying - yes we are talented people and we
would
love to
work on your project - we will do it at cost + 15% (15% is
actually
cheap - our new health plan requires a minimum 18% profit
or our
premiums will go up). Anyone think for 1 second the oil
companies would
stop all the new projects. In our society people respect
you
if you
make money - we need proper respect to further our
industry. If
we
stopped doing proposal work for free we would see respect
very
quickly -
Our clients would be more interested in relationships
instead of
who's
cheap.
We need a strong organization to promote Engineering and
we need
to work
together.
As far as lawyers risk/reward goes - if there was a
project out
there
where I could work for free but earn 20 lifetime's pay for
a
good job
I'd be on it in a heartbeat.
PRH
Three lawyers and three engineers are traveling by train
to a
conference. At the station, the three lawyers each buy
tickets
and watch
as the three engineers buy only a single ticket.
"How are three people going to travel on only one ticket?"
wonders one
of the lawyers. "Watch, and you'll see," replies one of
the
engineers.
They all board the train. The lawyers take their
respective
seats while
all three engineers cram into a restroom and close the
door
behind them.
Shortly after the train departs, the conductor comes
around
collecting
tickets. He knocks on the restroom door and says, "Ticket,
please." The
door opens just a crack and a single arm emerges with a
ticket
in hand.
The conductor takes it and moves on.
The lawyers see this and agree it is quite a clever idea.
After
the
conference, the lawyers decide to copy the engineers on
the
return trip
and save some money. When they get to the station, they
buy a
single
ticket for the return trip. To their astonishment, the
engineers
don't
buy a ticket at all. "How are you going to travel without
a
ticket?"
asks one perplexed lawyer. "Watch, and you'll see,"
replies one
of the
engineers.
When they board the train the three lawyers cram into a
restroom
and the
three engineers cram into another one nearby. The train
departs.
A few
moments later, one of the engineers leaves his restroom
and
walks over
to the restroom where the lawyers are hiding. He knocks on
the
door and
says, "Ticket, please."
Paul Hawco
Mechanical Engineer
Neill & Gunter (Nova Scotia) Limited
<a href="http://www.neillandgunter.com">http://www.neillandgunter.com</a>
<http://www.neillandgunter.com>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Received on Fri Mar 05 12:06:00 2004
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