You may try again www.gramya.com
NK Roy
- Michael Waugh <mike@waudesign.com> wrote:
> I dont believe your link workd below. May want to
> check.
>
> Mike Waugh
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Narendra Roy [mailto:narendra_roy@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 2:26 PM
> To: PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PipingDesign] New Current Interesting
> Link - Drawing on Ex
>
>
> It is turning out to be discussion on wider aspects,
> the total project
> management which covers the Piping Design as a part,
> may be an important
> part.If I have not forgotten the subject, it seems I
> have authored a book on
> Project Management ( Indian Scenario) some 4 years
> back and was recieved
> well by the professionals in India and even
> abroad.Now I understand the
> importance of the role of the project manager better
> when a piping design
> group discusses in such details worldwide
> appreciating the managers role.
> Any body having interest in the book may refer the
> website
> www.gramya.comThanksNK Roy--- Al wrote:> some
> really excellent points from
> mike;> > H'es right on the money. The role of
> managing a> project doing the>
> calculations and doing the detail designwork are
> all> value added essential>
> roles. Many clients try to role them all into one.>
> On a very small project>
> its possible with a rare and very skilled>
> practictioner.> The time it takes
> to communicate, get the real> picture,
> collect the> information, and keep going down the
> right track is> an
> invaluable role and> cannot be trivialized. Ever
> noticed how on the other>
> side the buyer/owner> calls up , communicates , asks
> questions, gives>
> feedback and direction or> wants input or project
> updates and is all doing
> this> on his companies (paid)> time.> When you try
> to add manhours for these
> tasks, or put> it on your bill, they> only want to
> pay for the time "on the>
> board/computer"/ producing the calc or> the piece of
> paper. Somehow the
> other> equally (if not more) important stuff has no>
> recompensory value,
> only in> their time. IT is just ignorance
> (sometimes> deliberate on thier
> part). They> sure bitch if things go astray or off
> track.> > This is where a
> good manager/PE shines and there are> some (not many
> ) out> there. Attempts
> by owners to subvert bypass role> into one
> overloaded> individual and
> shortcut all that, or mishandling it> by poor
> co-ordinating> skills is just
> asking for trouble. And that
> happens> lots.> > Why are we discussing this;
> because as expectations> get
> higher and they are,> things get more complex and
> they are, accountability>
> increases and it is,> buyers of these services get
> further and further>
> removed from what it takes> to do it.OFten they dont
> even have a clue what>
> information you need and dont> want to pay the time
> it takes to get it.> Its
> getting worse as owners get more and more> removed
> from engineering and>
> just want a turnkey product , but want to stick>
> their fingers in the pie>
> about how its getting done.> > Sticking our
> collective heads in the sand
> doesnt> help address and correct> the issues. they
> need to be openly
> discussed and> REBUFFED for what they> are....
> ignorance ,lack of knowledge
> and lack of> understanding.> > > -----Original
> Message-----> From: Michael
> Waugh [mailto:mike@waudesign.com]> Sent: Sunday,
> April 25, 2004 10:20 AM>
> To: PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE:
> [PipingDesign] New Current
> Interesting> Link - Drawing on
> Ex> > > Chris:> > I agree with your comments and
> thanks for your>
> response.> > Regarding some of the original subject
> matter, is> the first
> mistake made> when we even discriminate between the
> two? CAD has> been
> around for say,> 10-15 years. Mechanical
> engineeering (for> one)...many more
> years. The> inclusion of CAD into these various
> displines and> technical
> sciences forces> changes and challenges to our
> original concepts of> what it
> today that make a> person educated or for that
> matter qualified, in any>
> particular field. It is> after all, the employer
> that some sets these>
> demands. The same applies to> materials. There is
> an overwelming aspect to
> this> stuff, one that will never> be adressed by
> downsizing and lumping>
> responsibilities into one. Personally,> I like to to
> feel that I can tackle
> sciences> "en-masse", realizing as well I> never be
> an expert at in one
> particular area. > Probably the best lesson I> got
> at university, was
> learning just how much I did> not know.
> Managing the> level of understanding is the key.> >
> I was interviewing with
> a company the other that> does work for Tropicana.>
> They initially wanted a
> Project Manager, someone> with AutoCAD experience
> as> well as of course,
> plant experience. Well, I fit the> mold. What
> became> apparent, this company
> was under some pressure> because whoever it was
> they> were trying to
> appease, was asking why they needed> to have project
> Manager> and a CAD guy.
> The giveaway, "well, maybe we need to> consider
> someone who> can do both"
> Typical. Tropicana wants to save a> buck, and is
> tiring> gettting billed for
> both, by an engineering company> that has more
> medals> than generals do.> >
> Not to mention the greater
> problem....communications> between those two
> sods> who would wind up chasing each other in
> circles,> until finally, they
> would> accomplish the design goals required. Add to
> this,> all the
> complexities of> meeting the deployment according
> standards (Colors,>
> layering etc.), that add> more pain
> to the equation than meets the eye. just> add
> variables that are> not
> necessarily or absolutely important but are>
> features inherent to the>
> software and nonetheless add to diversions. What
> one> encounters with>
> programs like AutoCAD (most common) vs software
> such> as 3d modelling>
> software that can really do the job, then something>
> has to give.> > So, I
> told this guy. Look, I am familiar with this>
> problem, these are issues> I
> have had to face. But, dont hamstring me. When you>
> try to lump all these>
> into one, the solution is not found, I have been>
> there. I will happily>
> tackle design, plant engineering, contractors,>
> product issues and
> regulatory> BS, you name it. But, I can only do so
> efficiently> using the
> tools that I> have found to really work, so as to
> not have to> address the
> ire of someone> such as a production manager (Trop),
> who likely has> no
> concept of the depth> involved.> > I am about ready
> for one of the Roo's in
> the oil> can, that is. Stay away> from those brown
> bottles, they've been laced with> monobutyl tin
> trichloride,> first
> vaporised then destructed after molding.> > Regards>
> > Mike Waugh> > >
> > -----Original Message-----> From: Christopher
> Wright>
> [mailto:chrisw@skypoint.com]> Sent: Saturday, April
> 24, 2004 4:35 PM> To:
> Pipingdesign> Subject: Re: [PipingDesign] New
> Current Interesting> Link -
> Drawing on Ex> > > >But, there is after all, a whole
> world in materials>
> science that goes> >beyond statics, dynamics,
> kinematics and the> physical
> world, etc. I have> >been witness to engineers
> select the cheapest> material
> and the wrong> >materials. And yep, they call
> themselves engineers.> It
> works both ways. I've run into metallurgists and>
> materials scientists> who
> know everything about materials except what> makes
> them fail. It's> fairly
> common in the forensic biz.> > >I have seen many
> instances where an employer
> for> example,> >wants a CAD designer with an
> engineering degree.>
>
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Received on Sun Apr 25 21:27:00 2004