Re: Underground Piping

From: <cckla>
Date: Mon Jun 07 2004 - 01:38:00 EDT

Dear Gordon Reddek,

My job are not only deal with fire fighting but I also involve in water supply system. In this case, I am in the position of dealing with water supply.

From your previous reply,

> 2) If the road is to be subject to abnormal traffic, like trucks
> carrying heavy equipment, one normally buries the pipe deeper

In my opinion, if the pipe was buries deeper, the buried laod on that pipe will be increased. Is it a normal practice to use larger diameter pipe ? Or there are some rules to be followed during the selection of the pipe ?

Do you know what is the difference in the usage of the formula CWB2 and CWD2 in calculating the dead buried load for underground piping ? Where C = coefficient and 2 indicate power of 2.

                               W = soil weight
                               B = trench width
                               D = pipe diameter
There are two ways of calculating the dead buried load. So, I believe that there must be difference during the installing of the underground pipe. Can you let me know the difference ?

Please guide me.

Thanks.

cckla

   cckla,

   I doubt it very much. I have never found a useful free standard on the    web. The majority of those organisations are now private organisations    bent on making a profit, so you can expect to pay. It looks as though you    are designing a fire water system. I suggest you surf the national fire    protection association (nfpa) website and look at the short descriptions    they give for each standard and take a punt on the ones that may cover the    subject of buried line. Once you know what you are looking for see if you    cant loan a copy from your national library or technical institution. I    did a quick google search and found the following site which you could    start with.
   http://www.nfpa.org/catalog/home/index.asp?cookie%5Ftest=1

   Cheers,

   Gordon Reddek

   Gordon Reddek
   Specialist Mechanical Engineer
   Alcan Engineering, Level 3, 443 Queen St, Brisbane, Qld 4001, Australia.    Tel: +61 7 3328 6424
   Fax: +61 7 3328 6990
   Email: gordon.reddek@alcan.com

   "cckla" <cckla@pd.jaring.my>
   03/06/2004 06:24 PM
   Please respond to
   PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com

   To
   <PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com>
   cc

   Subject
   Re: [PipingDesign] Underground Piping

   Dear Mr. Gordon Reddek,

   Thank you for your informations. Anyway, is there any international piping    codes which are available online, such as nfpa for fire services ?

   Regards,

   cckla

     Dear Thanks,

     The criteria for buried pipe depends on the code that has jurisdiction
     over the facility you are designing.  These days one seldom designs a
     pipeline from first principles, you have to design to the requirements
   of
     either a national, or international standard.   As always you guys give
     insufficient information to give good advice.  What are we talking about

     here.  High pressure steel oil or gas line, plastic or a concrete sewer?

     What is the diameter?  two inches or six feet?  For what it is worth:
     1) Steel high pressure oil and gas lines under roads with normal traffic

     are normally buried with 1200mm cover, that means from the top of the
   pipe
     to the road surface.
     2) If the road is to be subject to abnormal traffic, like trucks
   carrying
     heavy equipment, one normally buries the pipe deeper, or , the pipe runs

     in a culvert designed by civil engineers to take the load, or a slab is
     cast over the pipe to distribute the load to the ground on both sides of

     the pipe.
     3) Very large diameter low pressure lines like sewers require special
     treatment.  That is the area of a specialist and you should not touch it

     if you are not qualified.

     Regarding bedding material.  The soil below the pipe is commonly called
     bedding and that above the line is called shading.  Normally it has to
     surround the pipe with a layer of at least six inches (or 150mm).  The
     specification normally calls for clean loose sand free of stones and
     extraneous material.  Some specs may even nominate a sieve size that the

     sand must pass through however it is not uncommon to see clauses like
   "the
     sand may contain stones of a rounded shape and with a diameter no
   greater
     than (say) 10mm."  The details will depend on the pipe coating.  If the
     pipe is a steel pipe coated with a fairly soft coating the spec will
   have
     to be stringent to protect the coating from damage by the bedding and
     shading material.  If the pipe is a concrete monster you would most
     probably call for a loose sand bedding so that the pipe can be levelled
     properly  and shading with the  excavated material provided the lump
   size
     is on average no greater than (say) 100mm.  What you specify depends on
     the pipe you are installing.

     Sure you can join pipe under roads.  If you are running gas or some
   other
     dangerous material  you will not want a leak there so one tends to be
   more
     stringent regarding joints in that area.  Some Authorities may require
     that the line under a road is jointless, however in general pipe codes
     require the pipe in that sort of area to be thicker so that they are
   more
     lightly stressed.  Flanges are generally not allowed on buried
     installations so I would expect that a full penetration butt weld which
   is
     subject to 100% NDT would be considered to be acceptable.

     Once again, you must find out what code governs the way you design your
     line and you must be guided by the requirements of that code.



     Gordon Reddek
     Specialist Mechanical Engineer
     Alcan Engineering, Level 3, 443 Queen St, Brisbane, Qld 4001, Australia.
     Tel: +61 7 3328 6424
     Fax: +61 7 3328 6990
     Email: gordon.reddek@alcan.com




     "cckla" <cckla@pd.jaring.my>
     02/06/2004 03:40 PM
     Please respond to
     PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com


     To
     <PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com>
     cc

     Subject
     [PipingDesign] Underground Piping






     Dear All Specialists,

     1)    What are the criterias, which determine the depth of the
   underground
     pipe ?

     2)    What should be considered in the selection of soil for the
     underground pipe trench ?

     3)     Should there be any joint under the crossing road ? If yes, what
     will be the suitable joints ?

     Thanks




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Received on Mon Jun 07 01:38:00 2004

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