To: Shiva Raju
Re Chilled water piping
1. There are available graphs in A/C references or hydronics books where you can
find friction losses for pipes. The main parameters are pipe material, flow,
pipe diameter and velocity.
2. If you are referring to safety factor for pipe strengths, normally these are
not given much attention in chilled water designs as the working pressure is
quite low (60 - 150 psi) compared to the properties of pipes used (normally
schedule 40, BI, malleable or cast iron/steel); that is assuming this is the
'usual' air conditioning application. However, you should pay attention to the
class of accessories used such as valves, gauges and fittings for their design
temperature-pressure ratings especially in cooling of industrial processes.
3. Balancing valves are not "musts" in chilled water systems but they are highly
desirable especially during the testing and commissioning stage when you want to
know if you are getting the correct flow or for 'balancing' the flow. For same
reasons, they also help in monitoring/checking your systems later on. You may
want to know that some people refer to balancing valve as circuit setter valve
while others call it double regulating valve. It has 2 ports for connecting the
measuring instrument.
Hope above info will help.
Tas Grajo
PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com wrote:
There are 6 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 13:44:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alejandro Perez
Subject: RE: Buried molten sulphur pipelines
Steve,
I read what you said about "none of their major lines has been removed". What does mean? I ask you because we have several problems with the lines that conduct the melt sulphur to the furnace. The lines are above ground. We use carbon steel ASTM A-53 Gr B for the pipes (of course jacketed pipes). Could you have an alternative material for the lines, because rigth now they last like 3 months maximun. Maybe AISI 310, SAAB 904L or something. What do you think?
Steve McKenzie wrote:
Just to put things into perspective, I look after 3 elemental sulphur
acid plants; all about 400km apart, all about 40 years old.Because all
have diesel fired startup boilers and sufficient standby generation
capacity to run them, none have suffered a freeze in the sulphur
lines.None of the major lines have ever been removed. The culverts
provided have been a total waste of a massive amount of money. If the
sulphur is a byproduct, or otherwise dirty, then some extra thought is
obviously necessary. Access at bends may be all you need. Spare a
thought for the owners wallet. If they let go every 10 years then you
dig them up. It doesn't take long.
Cheers
Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: G. S. N. Murthy [mailto:murthyg@petrofac.co.ae]
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 1:01 AM
To: PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PipingDesign] Buried molten sulphur pipelines
Hi Jones,
The other main consideration is at times these lines have to be removed and to be rodded or steam cleaned, if there is an accidental failure of the steam. It inviting trouble if you put them in narrow culvert. It is not advisable to bury them.
Regards,
GSN Murthy.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve McKenzie [mailto:mechproj@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:47 PM
To: PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PipingDesign] Buried molten sulphur pipelines
Hi JJ
because molten sulphur lines are normally steam sleeved, it is
traditionally considered asking for trouble to bury them. If you run
them in a sufficiently sized drained culvert, then no special
requirements are necessary. Condensate return is the normal design
driver. If you decide to bury them, then make sure that the steam traps
can drain and you can get at them. Given the cost of culverts, and the
reliability of sleeved pipe, I would give serious thought to burying.
That's one opinion.
Cheers
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: JohnJones [mailto:dairyman2000qa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 6:56 PM
To: PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PipingDesign] Buried molten sulphur pipelines
I'm trying to find any experience of "below ground" (buried, culverted, trenched) molten sulphur pipelines. Can any body help?
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 11:44:16 +1200
From: "Steve McKenzie"
Subject: RE: Buried molten sulphur pipelines
Hi Alejandro
I will find out the pipe material spec, and see if there have been any
replacements that I don't know about. The melter steam tube bundles are
steel and are replaced peroidically as would be expected, but I have not
heard of problems with the line feeding the furnace.
Moisture in the sulphur is a big issue; we keep it as low as possible
and the sulphur is stored out of the weather.
Cheers
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Alejandro Perez [mailto:alejandroperezposada@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 8:45 AM
To: PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com
Cc: mechproj@xtra.co.nz
Subject: RE: [PipingDesign] Buried molten sulphur pipelines
Steve,
I read what you said about "none of their major lines has been removed". What does mean? I ask you because we have several problems with the lines that conduct the melt sulphur to the furnace. The lines are above ground. We use carbon steel ASTM A-53 Gr B for the pipes (of course jacketed pipes). Could you have an alternative material for the lines, because rigth now they last like 3 months maximun. Maybe AISI 310, SAAB 904L or something. What do you think?
Steve McKenzie wrote:
Just to put things into perspective, I look after 3 elemental sulphur
acid plants; all about 400km apart, all about 40 years old.Because all
have diesel fired startup boilers and sufficient standby generation
capacity to run them, none have suffered a freeze in the sulphur
lines.None of the major lines have ever been removed. The culverts
provided have been a total waste of a massive amount of money. If the
sulphur is a byproduct, or otherwise dirty, then some extra thought is
obviously necessary. Access at bends may be all you need. Spare a
thought for the owners wallet. If they let go every 10 years then you
dig them up. It doesn't take long.
Cheers
Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: G. S. N. Murthy [mailto:murthyg@petrofac.co.ae]
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 1:01 AM
To: PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PipingDesign] Buried molten sulphur pipelines
Hi Jones,
The other main consideration is at times these lines have to be removed and to be rodded or steam cleaned, if there is an accidental failure of the steam. It inviting trouble if you put them in narrow culvert. It is not advisable to bury them.
Regards,
GSN Murthy.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve McKenzie [mailto:mechproj@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:47 PM
To: PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PipingDesign] Buried molten sulphur pipelines
Hi JJ
because molten sulphur lines are normally steam sleeved, it is
traditionally considered asking for trouble to bury them. If you run
them in a sufficiently sized drained culvert, then no special
requirements are necessary. Condensate return is the normal design
driver. If you decide to bury them, then make sure that the steam traps
can drain and you can get at them. Given the cost of culverts, and the
reliability of sleeved pipe, I would give serious thought to burying.
That's one opinion.
Cheers
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: JohnJones [mailto:dairyman2000qa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 6:56 PM
To: PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PipingDesign] Buried molten sulphur pipelines
I'm trying to find any experience of "below ground" (buried, culverted, trenched) molten sulphur pipelines. Can any body help?
Yahoo! Groups Links
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
D=gr
oups/S=1705083319:HM/EXP=1091796539/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://
comp
anion.yahoo.com> click here
s/S=
:HM/A=2128215/rand=447407510>
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 20:36:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: shiva raju
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1248
Dear Friends,
To design the chilled water pipe (temp 5 deg C) the
pipe velocity should be 6 ft/sec or more & how to
consider the friction loss for the pipe.
for design purpose what should be taken the safety
factor?
for HVAC system in the chilled water line balancing
valve is required?
Please give me your's suggesstions & comments for the
same.
Thank you
Shivakumar Raju
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 06:21:23 +0100 (BST)
From: manjunatha kh
Subject: Re: Special considerations for pipes containing 3 phase flow
restraints in 6 directions, coeffiecient of friction, change in direction, ifthe line is connected to an equipment then the design parameters of that equipment,rigid items like valves, flamges etc.
ali ipakchi wrote:
Dear folks,
Would you please help on this:
What are the special requirements or considerations which must be taken into account in Design, stress analysis and choosing the pipe supports for a pipe containing 3phase flow?
Thanks,
Ali
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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 06:32:03 +0100 (BST)
From: manjunatha kh
Subject: Re: Buried pipe Trench
250mm
cckla wrote:Dear all specialists,
Do you know the minimum width of the trench for a 100mm diameter pipe, which will be considered as embankment backfill ? Is there any standard formula to determine the trench width for embankment backfill for the various pipe size ? Please guide me.
Thank you.
Regards,
cckla
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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 15:32:26 +0400
From: "Jijoy Pillai"
Subject: Re: inch dia in welding
Hi,
I understood how to calculate inch dia.
But I wanted to know for what is it used, or how is it useful in fabrication.
Regards
Jijoy
----- Original Message -----
From: shivanand kurabetti
To: PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: [PipingDesign] inch dia in welding
Hi,
Inch dia is used for calculation of fabrication work. it is calculated by = pipe dia (in inchs) x no of jts.
ThanX
shiva
raga_prasath wrote:
hi,
i am new in this group, i want to know what is inch dia in welding and how calculate this
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Received on Sun Aug 08 00:42:00 2004
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