To: Paul
Knowing restriction policy before entering a refinery maybe a good idea.
One time, I was detained at a refinery's security office (in KSA) for about one
hour and was threatened to be hauled to jail when a security guard at the main
gate found a digital camera in my brief case. Only the intervention of my host
prevented it from happening. And, I was not even going to the refinery proper. I
was to attend a meeting in the admin building which was not classified as
hazardous area (hazardous only to us, contractors, suffering some project
delays).
The good thing was, I missed the meeting. It would have been very "hot" in
there.
Regards.
Tas Grajo
KSA
<a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=np4DvroVcxqjM_xb5KUYTaJUxO4rhGQxGe_W5nDRL-Y6ikFF_ufn-cFFet1i6fULTSC-yAaHpghDYIkqApO-emcA">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a> wrote:
There are 11 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:37:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennie Mosta
Subject: Re: Laser Measuring Devices for Field Work
Hi Paul,
For what its worth. a company I used to work had a handheld Laser measuring device for us our doing field work. It was made, or ay least sold by, the Hilti company. It was very versatile and accurate. This was three years ago and I believe the price then was about $650. They have come down, but not enough for me to afford a good one for personal use. I would love to have one. The only problems I remember when using it was, even wearing the laser enhancing glasses, it was sometimes difficult to find the little red dot when using outdoors or a brightly lighted facility. Also, if you set it on a surface that may be vibrating from machiney running even little bit, it would be difficut to aim the red dot where you wanted it. Anyway, I found it to be a very useful instrument. Evidently others found it useful also, you had to reserve it days in advance in order to get it. With it, I was able to get measurements affecting my design that I would normally been unable to acquire. I think it beats the heck out of a steel tape measure.
Dennis
Paul Bowers
wrote:Does anyone have experience with laser measurement tools for field work?
Here's a webpage for one model, I think it costs about US$380:
<a href="http://www.disto.com/products/lite-5/index.htm">http://www.disto.com/products/lite-5/index.htm</a>
I'd guess it's worth the expense, primarily since you wouldn't have to pay someone else to hold one end of a traditional tape measure.
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
To visit your group on the web, go to:
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PipingDesign/">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PipingDesign/</a>
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=jfvciYc4OlBC3_R0sQ5dFwpRKHGHYhR6pCUKfS1ar0SkRtDjpWYCEIlZJQ8C6L93aMQYHFGn6z9htVcbvrmFxxLWSuG6dAapz1lpvMco_jg">PipingDesign-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</a>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:10:07 -0400
From: Paul Bowers
Subject: Re: Laser Measuring Devices for Field Work
Dennie Mosta wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> For what its worth. a company I used to work had a handheld Laser measuring
device for us our doing field work. It was made, or ay least sold by, the Hilti
company. It was very versatile and accurate. This was three years ago and I
believe the price then was about $650. They have come down, but not enough for
me to afford a good one for personal use. I would love to have one. The only
problems I remember when using it was, even wearing the laser enhancing glasses,
it was sometimes difficult to find the little red dot when using outdoors or a
brightly lighted facility. Also, if you set it on a surface that may be
vibrating from machiney running even little bit, it would be difficut to aim the
red dot where you wanted it. Anyway, I found it to be a very useful instrument.
Evidently others found it useful also, you had to reserve it days in advance in
order to get it. With it, I was able to get measurements affecting my design
that I would normally been unable to ac
quire. I
> think it beats the heck out of a steel tape measure.
>
> Dennis
I'm not sure what you mean when you refer to having to wear special glasses, that's completely nerdlike. I wear those all the time.
My experience with these things is that they are really useful (when I'm out in the field I like to depend on myself and not someone else).
Lasing a moving target would seem to be a bad idea and I wouldn't expect that to reflect reality. My experience with these things is that those that have access to them tend to jealously guard them.
One problem I've always seen when doing field work is communicating to the other end of the tape measure. And yes, I've "trogolyted" with a transit for elevation, that's never been the problem. Now that I recall it, I probably have forgotten.
Paul
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:16:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: "C.Y L"
Subject: Re: Laser Measuring Devices for Field Work
Hi There, where can I buy this thing? and is it allowed to use in the refinary?
Thanks
Robert liu
Paul Bowers
wrote:
Dennie Mosta wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> For what its worth. a company I used to work had a handheld Laser measuring
device for us our doing field work. It was made, or ay least sold by, the Hilti
company. It was very versatile and accurate. This was three years ago and I
believe the price then was about $650. They have come down, but not enough for
me to afford a good one for personal use. I would love to have one. The only
problems I remember when using it was, even wearing the laser enhancing glasses,
it was sometimes difficult to find the little red dot when using outdoors or a
brightly lighted facility. Also, if you set it on a surface that may be
vibrating from machiney running even little bit, it would be difficut to aim the
red dot where you wanted it. Anyway, I found it to be a very useful instrument.
Evidently others found it useful also, you had to reserve it days in advance in
order to get it. With it, I was able to get measurements affecting my design
that I would normally been unable to ac
quire. I
> think it beats the heck out of a steel tape measure.
>
> Dennis
I'm not sure what you mean when you refer to having to wear special glasses, that's completely nerdlike. I wear those all the time.
My experience with these things is that they are really useful (when I'm out in the field I like to depend on myself and not someone else).
Lasing a moving target would seem to be a bad idea and I wouldn't expect that to reflect reality. My experience with these things is that those that have access to them tend to jealously guard them.
One problem I've always seen when doing field work is communicating to the other end of the tape measure. And yes, I've "trogolyted" with a transit for elevation, that's never been the problem. Now that I recall it, I probably have forgotten.
Paul
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:02:55 -0400
From: Paul Bowers
Subject: A Billion People Can See Piping Design
It always annoys me when groups that need attention claim to "be available to 5 billion people" when they in fact only actually have a few thousand readers. In pipingdesign's case, there's only about 1000. (I'm not a marketing genius - otherwise there would be a million of us).
Ralph's site is at upFronteZine, Google for it, there seems to be a lot of piping people there and lately piping design has become a discussion issue.
Of course it's all superficial CAD stuff.
Paul
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:06:05 +0400
From: Sajit Viswan
Subject: RE: Laser Measuring Devices for Field Work
I recently bought a 5 m steel tape. It came as surprise that, though I did not have anybody to hold the tape at the other end, the tape end held on to the pipe by itself. The zero correction hook was magnetic.
Any electric or electronic device that is not explosion proof certified is technically not suitable for inside hazardous areas. For the upstream facilities, where crude is the only hydrocarbon service, out here they allow use of a digital camera except that one is not allowed to use the flash. I think this is not to trigger of a flame detector.
Sajit
-----Original Message-----
From: C.Y L [mailto:l_c_y1999@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 7:16 AM
To: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=np4DvroVcxqjM_xb5KUYTaJUxO4rhGQxGe_W5nDRL-Y6ikFF_ufn-cFFet1i6fULTSC-yAaHpghDYIkqApO-emcA">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a>
Subject: Re: [PipingDesign] Laser Measuring Devices for Field Work
Hi There, where can I buy this thing? and is it allowed to use in the refinary?
Thanks
Robert liu
Paul Bowers
wrote:
Dennie Mosta wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> For what its worth. a company I used to work had a handheld Laser measuring
device for us our doing field work. It was made, or ay least sold by, the Hilti
company. It was very versatile and accurate. This was three years ago and I
believe the price then was about $650. They have come down, but not enough for
me to afford a good one for personal use. I would love to have one. The only
problems I remember when using it was, even wearing the laser enhancing glasses,
it was sometimes difficult to find the little red dot when using outdoors or a
brightly lighted facility. Also, if you set it on a surface that may be
vibrating from machiney running even little bit, it would be difficut to aim the
red dot where you wanted it Anyway, I found it to be a very useful instrument.
Evidently others found it useful also, you had to reserve it days in advance in
order to get it. With it, I was able to get measurements affecting my design
that I would normally been unable to ac
quire. I
> think it beats the heck out of a steel tape measure.
>
> Dennis
I'm not sure what you mean when you refer to having to wear special glasses, that's completely nerdlike. I wear those all the time.
My experience with these things is that they are really useful (when I'm out in the field I like to depend on myself and not someone else).
Lasing a moving target would seem to be a bad idea and I wouldn't expect that to reflect reality. My experience with these things is that those that have access to them tend to jealously guard them.
One problem I've always seen when doing field work is communicating to the other end of the tape measure. And yes, I've "trogolyted" with a transit for elevation, that's never been the problem. Now that I recall it, I probably have forgotten.
Paul
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
click here
Yahoo! Groups Links
"This email message is intended for the named recipient only.It may be privileged and/or confidential.If you are not the intended named recipient of this email then you should not copy it or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person which is strictly prohibited and unlawful"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 01:08:16 -0400
From: Paul Bowers
Subject: Re: Laser Measuring Devices for Field Work
Sajit Viswan wrote:
> I recently bought a 5 m steel tape. It came as surprise that, though I did not
have anybody to hold the tape at the other end, the tape end held on to the pipe
by itself. The zero correction hook was magnetic.
>
> Any electric or electronic device that is not explosion proof certified is
technically not suitable for inside hazardous areas. For the upstream
facilities, where crude is the only hydrocarbon service, out here they allow use
of a digital camera except that one is not allowed to use the flash. I think
this is not to trigger of a flame detector.
I've seen this type of resrictive policy in refineries as well. Mostly it is overkill for visitors.
Often, within secure facilities, the regulars have fun with visitors that are unfamiliar with regulations.
Paul
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:18:54 +1300
From: "Steve McKenzie"
Subject: RE: Laser Measuring Devices for Field Work
Personally I seldom enter refineries, because they want to take my cigarette lighter off me at the gate. Surprised I don't have to take off my polyester jacket in case it build up static. Kind of scary to think (the absence of) a cigarette lighter is the only thing between safety and oblivion.
Re the laser thing, from memory there is a minimum current/voltage threshold below which you are OK (to do with ignition energy) so it would pay to check before giving up.
Cheers
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Bowers [mailto:pbowers@pipingdesign.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 6:08 PM
To: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=np4DvroVcxqjM_xb5KUYTaJUxO4rhGQxGe_W5nDRL-Y6ikFF_ufn-cFFet1i6fULTSC-yAaHpghDYIkqApO-emcA">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a>
Subject: Re: [PipingDesign] Laser Measuring Devices for Field Work
Sajit Viswan wrote:
> I recently bought a 5 m steel tape. It came as surprise that, though I
> did not have anybody to hold the tape at the other end, the tape end
held on to the pipe by itself. The zero correction hook was magnetic.
>
> Any electric or electronic device that is not explosion proof
> certified is technically not suitable for inside hazardous areas. For
> the upstream facilities, where crude is the only hydrocarbon service,
> out here they allow use of a digital camera except that one is not
> allowed to use the flash. I think this is not to trigger of a flame
> detector.
I've seen this type of resrictive policy in refineries as well. Mostly it is overkill for visitors.
Often, within secure facilities, the regulars have fun with visitors that are unfamiliar with regulations.
Paul
<a href="http://www.pipingoffice.us/">http://www.pipingoffice.us/</a> =========================================Main site: <a href="http://www.pipingdesign.com">http://www.pipingdesign.com</a>
Yahoo! Groups Links
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 01:20:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: "umesh k.n."
Subject: RE: Hydrofluoric Acid Piping Guidelines
Hello There,
First, Steve: You wrote "It looks like a cut and paste job to me." Of course I was sharing the special instructions & design guidelines we applied in an Alkylation plant. What is wrong with that? I presume that you never involved in the design of any alkylation plants. You are writing mail as if i made up all this myself. As i told in my mail, the guidelines mentioned there, were actual facts from UOP licensor plants in Mexico, which were designed by us. Also in my mail i made it clear that "Most of the licensors specify these precautions. Apply them strictly". Because design practice varies from licensor to licensor. I was sharing UOP design practice. The important thing is the guidelines I mentioned in my mail gives anyone an idea about design complexity of the plant.
Secondly: Talking of corrosion, I wish to cut & paste from the following website. Hope you don’t mind!!!!!!!!!!!. <a href="http://httd.njuct.edu.cn/MatWeb/mat-envs/feeee.htm">http://httd.njuct.edu.cn/MatWeb/mat-envs/feeee.htm</a>
Performance of Steel in Various Corrosive, an Overview Introduction The applications for which the carbon and low-alloy steels were developed generally do not involve corrosion resistance as a primary consideration. In most situations, their serviceability depends on the fact that following the initial corrosive attack, protective films form that tend to reduce the corrosion rate to some acceptable level.
Corrosion Resistance
The corrosion resistance of steel depends on the formation of an oxide surface
film. In many environments this "passive film" formed on plain carbon steel is
not very stable. Hence, the resistance to corrosion is somewhat limited.
Steel is routinely used for most organic chemicals and neutral or alkaline aqueous solutions at moderate temperatures. It is the classic material for storage of concentrated sulfuric acid and is frequently used for handling caustic soda up to 50% and 55C (130F).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Received on Wed Oct 20 02:03:00 2004
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Tue Mar 04 2008 - 11:40:37 EST