Tanks to all,
I am agree with you as well and I know well the man-hour requirement for plant
design is depend on largeness of plant,no. of equipment,type of equipment(fix &
rotary),no of structure,hot process or cold process,ave. size of pipes and all
other items which they can affect on MAN-HOURS.
But what I'm looking for is man-hour estimation which has don by the persons who
they did(or have experience) PP,PE or Ethane Cracking or similar plant.I think a
experieced piping man who has been done one or two the mentioned plants,could be
able to guess in an example 300 kt/y Polypropylene plant how many equipments,
which type of Equipment,and at the end normaly How many hours are required.
to Al:
You imagine you have a plot plan(or Equipment Layout)and preliminary P&IDs you
have to estimate man-hour for FEED and Detail Engineering activities .What will
do and how you will do?(please do not consider any Specifications and/or work
instructions which normaly prepare on Basic phase).
my question was from the people who have been already done the mentioned
projects and its different from "how long is a piece of string".
Bruce Bullough <bbullough@sebesta.com> wrote: Even on 3-D modeling, remember it is MODELING. It will not truly represent the real world. Walls are not "plumb and true": I've commonly seen walls that are 25cm or more out of "true" when a floor or level is only 450cm high; pipe is not absolutely straight (and even if it is, by the time it is in service, it won't be). Racks are not going to be all precisely at design elevation. Tanks usually arrive with nozzles out of place or orientation, requiring field modification of the run. It's all nice a pretty in model space, but only generally representative of real space. This is why [2] - experience leads to wisdom.
... Bruce D. Bullough ...
Sebesta Blomberg & Associates, Inc.
2381 Rosegate
Roseville, MN 55113 USA
+ 651-634-7344
www.sebesta.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Bowers [mailto:pbowers@pipingdesign.com]
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 3:44 PM
To: PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PipingDesign] Man-Hour Estimation [bcc][faked-from]
Maybe he's looking for percentages rather than actual hours.
I presume that at this point the PFD and P&IDs are available and fairly complete.
For at least 1) and 2) you probably would want to do this manually with some really big sheets of paper, some pencils and an eraser and very experienced, capable people [1] and [2].
After everyone is in agreement with the final preliminary study (there will be arguments), then you can put stuff into computers.
Paul
[1] You'll need very knowledgeable mechanical engineers, civil and structural engineers and hopefully some expert contractors (in case some genius proposes something that is not feasible/economically unsound). Ignore the process engineers at your own peril.
[2] "Very experienced, capable people" might not want to interface with computers and software that force them to view/do things in ways that they are not comfortable with.
Al wrote:
> this is really good.
> I'm dying to see the answers to this one.
> i challenge you all to come up with a better answer than "how long is
> a piece of string"
> al
> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: [PipingDesign] Man-Hour Estimation
> 1)Line Study and preliminary routing(by using of 3D software)
> hr(s)/Line 2)Piperack & Structural Load calculation 3)3D Modeling(PDS
> or PDMS) 1-1)Equipment modeling hr.(s)/equip 1-2)Pipr rack &
> structure modeling(using equip modeling in piping model notFrame work)
> 1-2)piping modeling 4)supporting hr.(s)/sheet(isometric) 5)Stress
> analysis hr.(s)/sys.
> 6)Iso checking (including flow check,material check,supp.check,stress
> check &...)
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Received on Wed Oct 20 11:26:00 2004
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