And so typical of industry today - the worker on site gets the can, whether he had anything to do with it or not, while the directors/board/accountants who created the policy behind the situation, get a bonus for meritorious service.
Bring back the old days, with engineers and managers who worked their way up the chain. They may not have degrees from the "right" colleges or specialty, but they knew the process and what made it work (and fail). Crusty and opinionated, but inflexibility can be good, when you are right.
George McKinney
Sr. Compression Engineer
(Professional Hired Gun)
Augusta Engineering & Design, Inc
> i agree Goeff. See it all the time.
> And yes it was Bp texas. And the story is actually much worse if you read
> the accounts. Management blamed a worker for not signing an unrelated
> worksheet and fired him as the scapegoat. Afterwards they claimed they
never
> actually said it had anything to do with the explosion or the deaths. Just
a
> technicality but it had to be punished.
>
> then go look at BPs record.at the Chem eng website.or the US .Govt
Incident
> record website.. or Bp alaska.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Geoff Stone DD&D Australia" <blenrayaust@yahoo.co.uk>
> To: <PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 3:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [PipingDesign] Re: pIPING THICKNESS CALCULATOR
>
>
> > Tom,
> >
> > But as you are aware at Flixborough this thoughness was not employed
but
> perhaps we have learnt our lesson.
> >
> > I have sent Paul an article related to a failure investigation at a
> refinery in the UK. There the corrsion was identified and I am sure all
the
> steps you descriibe were put in place but finally mamnagement didnt
approve
> the budget or give the go a ahead or decided to adopt a higher risk
profile.
> >
> > Wasnt their a recent catastrophe at a BP refinery in the USA because
> management deferred the upgrade of a flare system?
> >
> > It appears to me that it is not the professional engineers that are
the
> problem but the management who use seat of the pants tools to do their
job.
> If estimators do a quick and dirty number crunch to set a budget and then
> when the real engineers get involved and make allowance for all the things
> we have been discussing who gets the blame? The engineer for blowing the
> budget.
> >
> > I see it my line of work of surge analysis all the time. Rarely does a
> company do a surge analysis at tender time. When they come to build the
> plant and need money for surge mitigation, or even the surge study, it
> becomes a dilemma.
> >
> > I see your point about the pipe thickness calculator however I prefer
> the approach of having company standards of presure and temperature for
each
> service, defined on the P&IDs. There is in built conservatism there.
> >
> > I think this thread has come a long way since its inception but has
> allowed us to air our thoughts. Our opinions are not so different.
> >
> > Happy Christmas
> > Geoff Stone
> >
> > tomcruz55 <tomcruz55@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Im familiar with the incident and a dozen more as Part of our
> > competency program related to SHE. What ive said is not even near to
> > what happen at Flexiborough. The last paragraph of my response is
> > pretty much clear.
> >
> > When a proposal is being made for a plant change such as piping work
> > addition or mods or any work related to capital project, the very
> > first thing that is needed is a justification - because resources
> > will obviously have to be expended or it may have an impact on SHE
> > or production.
> >
> > Project justification or request for plant change these days require
> > an estimate before committing more resources - to see if its worth
> > pursuing then management need to rank it and of course allocate
> > resoruces if approved and after a project plan. The project plan (im
> > using a term that makes sense to most) will normally include a risk
> > assessment, a HazOp and others in addition to ROI evaluation.
> >
> > Like Ive said, an estimate is just an estimate. Need to pass more
> > gates to make the estimate a reality. The keeper of these gates are
> > experienced/license descipline engineers and managers familiar with
> > the SHE requirement - either mandated by law or following generally
> > accepted engineering practice.
> >
> > In my book, A prelim calc is not a license to proceed. Meaning
> > theres no committment, no labor or material, no construction
> > details, no scope of work. In short, no ka-boom.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Stone DD&D Australia
> > <blenrayaust@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Tom,
> > >
> > > Thats how the Flixborough disaster occurred in Yorkshire. Just a
> > quick jumber around a defective reactor. the bellows squirmed and
> > Kaboom. Bet those guys had a chart or quick calculator, not a piping
> > engineer in sight.
> > >
> > > Geoff
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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> >
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Received on Fri Dec 23 07:53:00 2005
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