Re: pIPING THICKNESS CALCULATOR

i dont know aluser2. but the safety advisory that i received few days after the incident depict a different scenario. theres a learning lesson at what happen in BP Texas - a lot. CSB will normally get involved in this type of incident and the result posted in their website.

What surprises me is very few people who does piping design are not even aware of the OSHA PSM program - a necessity if you work in industry that deals with oil and its byproducts or where hazards exist.

• In PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com, aluser2 <alwynk@s...> wrote:
  >
  > i agree Goeff. See it all the time.
  > And yes it was Bp texas. And the story is actually much worse if
  you read
  > the accounts. Management blamed a worker for not signing an
  unrelated
  > worksheet and fired him as the scapegoat. Afterwards they claimed
  they never
  > actually said it had anything to do with the explosion or the
  deaths. Just a
  > technicality but it had to be punished.
  >
  > then go look at BPs record.at the Chem eng website.or the US .Govt
  Incident
  > record website.. or Bp alaska.
  >
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: "Geoff Stone DD&D Australia" <blenrayaust@y...>
  > To: <PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com>
  > Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 3:54 PM
  > Subject: Re: [PipingDesign] Re: pIPING THICKNESS CALCULATOR
  >
  >
  > > Tom,
  > >
  > > But as you are aware at Flixborough this thoughness was not
  employed but
  > perhaps we have learnt our lesson.
  > >
  > > I have sent Paul an article related to a failure investigation
  at a
  > refinery in the UK. There the corrsion was identified and I am
  sure all the
  > steps you descriibe were put in place but finally mamnagement
  didnt approve
  > the budget or give the go a ahead or decided to adopt a higher
  risk profile.
  > >
  > > Wasnt their a recent catastrophe at a BP refinery in the USA
  because
  > management deferred the upgrade of a flare system?
  > >
  > > It appears to me that it is not the professional engineers
  that are the
  > problem but the management who use seat of the pants tools to do
  their job.
  > If estimators do a quick and dirty number crunch to set a budget
  and then
  > when the real engineers get involved and make allowance for all
  the things
  > we have been discussing who gets the blame? The engineer for
  blowing the
  > budget.
  > >
  > > I see it my line of work of surge analysis all the time.
  Rarely does a
  > company do a surge analysis at tender time. When they come to
  build the
  > plant and need money for surge mitigation, or even the surge
  study, it
  > becomes a dilemma.
  > >
  > > I see your point about the pipe thickness calculator however I
  prefer
  > the approach of having company standards of presure and
  temperature for each
  > service, defined on the P&IDs. There is in built conservatism
  there.
  > >
  > > I think this thread has come a long way since its inception
  but has
  > allowed us to air our thoughts. Our opinions are not so different.
  > >
  > > Happy Christmas
  > > Geoff Stone
  > >
  > > tomcruz55 <tomcruz55@y...> wrote:
  > > Im familiar with the incident and a dozen more as Part of our
  > > competency program related to SHE. What ive said is not even
  near to
  > > what happen at Flexiborough. The last paragraph of my response is
  > > pretty much clear.
  > >
  > > When a proposal is being made for a plant change such as piping
  work
  > > addition or mods or any work related to capital project, the very
  > > first thing that is needed is a justification - because resources
  > > will obviously have to be expended or it may have an impact on
  SHE
  > > or production.
  > >
  > > Project justification or request for plant change these days
  require
  > > an estimate before committing more resources - to see if its
  worth
  > > pursuing then management need to rank it and of course allocate
  > > resoruces if approved and after a project plan. The project plan
  (im
  > > using a term that makes sense to most) will normally include a
  risk
  > > assessment, a HazOp and others in addition to ROI evaluation.
  > >
  > > Like Ive said, an estimate is just an estimate. Need to pass more
  > > gates to make the estimate a reality. The keeper of these gates
  are
  > > experienced/license descipline engineers and managers familiar
  with
  > > the SHE requirement - either mandated by law or following
  generally
  > > accepted engineering practice.
  > >
  > > In my book, A prelim calc is not a license to proceed. Meaning
  > > theres no committment, no labor or material, no construction
  > > details, no scope of work. In short, no ka-boom.
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > --- In PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Stone DD&D Australia
  > > <blenrayaust@y...> wrote:
  > > >
  > > > Tom,
  > > >
  > > > Thats how the Flixborough disaster occurred in Yorkshire.
  Just a
  > > quick jumber around a defective reactor. the bellows squirmed and
  > > Kaboom. Bet those guys had a chart or quick calculator, not a
  piping
  > > engineer in sight.
  > > >
  > > > Geoff
  > > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
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