G'day Steve,
Change of lifestyle? No, what leads you to this question my friend; I do not understand?
Dust suppression, hmmm. I have done some concept stuff on a feed lot (cattle) that had soil based floor material in the yards that was required to be wetted down along with service roads that were gravel; we used large travelling irrigator guns as the design but the job didn't go ahead. Something to do with money?
Some years ago I looked at a quarry/crushing plant that was having trouble from the bloody "Greenies" with respect to dust travelling off the site and supposedly causing pollution onto neighbouring houses (2k's away). I had drawn up a design that incorporated an intricate web of micro sprays that targeted the obvious dust areas of the process. This job didn't process as the Environment Dept. got involved and setup dust collection stations at the sites of the grizzling neighbours. The dust was no more or no less than any other rural setting and hence the "Greenies" were advised that this was a natural for those that lived in the country.
The above is fairly typical as we have had many city people move to the country for a lifestyle change and don't accept all that the country life, and its people, have to offer which is part of the deal.
The water hammer question I didn't read properly, although I would be still a bit jumpy if the off-takes had the ability to allow large amounts of demand to be supplied at the one point with manual valve control, especially lever. Most of our work is on forced mains, similar to yours I suspect.
It would appear that Jacques may be coming to Aust. for a pulp mill gig in the near future; Taralgon in Victoria I thought he said. I might even get a chance to catch up with which would be nice.
Speaking of catching up, are you still likely to come to OZ in the near future?
If you would like a bouncing board for your dust suppression ideas bounce away.
Cheers,
Robin
> Hi Robin
>
> Have you changed lifestyle?
> I am about to need some help on dust suppression.
> Have you done anything in this regard?
>
> This is for Kens digestion and Geoffs indigestion.
>
> Geoff will cane me for this, but for water supply I seldom worry about
> surge protection at concept phase other than to throw 15% on the design
> pressure and 10 - 20% on pumping station costings. The iterative nature
> of design normally requires an estimate to be made on secondart issues.
> Surge is a secondary effect and can only be evaluated after the primary
> system is laid out. Surge anticipators are good on a force mains, but
> most (true) networks have so much frictional diffusion and capacitance
> that they never reflect anything much. This aint the case with force
> mains which can blow your head off.
> With a truly closed system, and I have never done a closed network
> (assume its district heating/cooling), things will change a little but
> diffusion and unequal conduit lengths should tend to stop things getting
> out of hand. Also with a network, the serious events are supply (pump)
> generated and the likelihood of a widespread (valves closing
> simultaneously) flow rejection is normally impossible.
> Experience with previous open circuit projects suggests to me that you
> may need some air vessels at each pump station at preliminary costing
> stage, and these will be dropped off as the surge model matures. If the
> system is a district heating or cooling system then you will need some
> volume compensation capability anyway so the surge vessels may double as
> pressure accumulators for volume change; thus reducing cost.
> My gut feel is that if there are heaps of small demand users, no major
> elevation changes and no long force mains (pressure pipes with no active
> branches) then eventual provisions for water hammer will be bugger all,
> and water hammer will be relegated to a secondary issue.
>
> It pays to remember that the majority of major liquid distribution
> networks were commissioned prior to the proliferation of water hammer
> software, and most operate acceptably with regard to transients.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=SNTlUHNNaCxkn9k0LhRfrhF5trmnHv0fIbjLa_7ZvUAx4Ca8qD5hPV5vxiStKpJ8tVYjSSyQ3wt9ovrKfkhB7xMlSg">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a> [mailto:<a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=SNTlUHNNaCxkn9k0LhRfrhF5trmnHv0fIbjLa_7ZvUAx4Ca8qD5hPV5vxiStKpJ8tVYjSSyQ3wt9ovrKfkhB7xMlSg">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a>]
> On Behalf Of Robin Badcock
> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 11:03 PM
> To: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=SNTlUHNNaCxkn9k0LhRfrhF5trmnHv0fIbjLa_7ZvUAx4Ca8qD5hPV5vxiStKpJ8tVYjSSyQ3wt9ovrKfkhB7xMlSg">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a>
> Subject: Re: [PipingDesign] Surge and Water Hammer
>
>
> Ken,
>
> As an added safety feature of the piping network will there be surge
> anticipation valves fitted.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Robin Badcock
> Irrigation Design Consultant
> Badcock Irrigation Services
> 4154 Meander Valley Road
> Deloraine, Tas. Australia. 7304
> Ph. 03 63623003
> Fax. 03 63622977
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Eppleston" <keneppo@yahoo.com.au>
> To: <PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 10:02 AM
> Subject: [PipingDesign] Surge and Water Hammer
>
>
> > This mostly directed at Geoff but all advice is welcomed,
> >
> > We have a large closed network utilising insulated steel pipe and I am
>
> > trying to understand the likelihood or risk associated with a pressure
>
> > surge.
> >
> > This network is entirely buried and we have not been commissioned to
> > undertake the pumping plant design- so we have little control of valve
>
> > selection and/or control within the plants.
> >
> > There will be 3 pumping stations each pump is variable flow and all
> > valves in the network are manually operated large diameter butterfly
> > valves. Roughly there will be 20 pumps in each pumping station.
> >
> > My limited understanding of surge and water hammer is that it relies
> > on a fast change in pressure (by valve closure or loss of pumps etc)
> > in the network which propogates through out the system causing if not
> > catastrophic failure then fatigue.
> >
> > The overall system pressure will modulate in accordance with demand
> > but this will be controlled by VSD's on the pumps, also given that the
>
> > entire network is completely restrained by the soil and that there is
> > no real risk that a valve can be shut quickly...Is surge and water
> > hammer still a potential risk on the system and why?
> >
> > The size of the network dictates that any ramping up or down of pumps
> > will not induce a rapid change in the network pressure. And even if
> > one pumping station goes down because of power failure the other two
> > will be designed to pick up the slack. My thoughts are that this still
>
> > may induce a rapid change in pressure??
> >
> > Can managing the operation (including the event of a failure) of the
> > network in such a way as to avoid any rapid pressure variations be
> > used to eliminate the risk or surge and water hammer?
> >
> > Any ideas or comments??
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =========================================
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> > http://www.pipingoffice.us/ =========================================
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> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
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Received on Sat Jan 14 20:39:00 2006
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