Re: tell me idea guys........

Oh, no argument here Chris.. I mean, obviously you need to know what the scope of your job is, and know what information and reference you will need to do your job.

But then again, I just may be lucky to work with so many people that are very willing to offer insight and impart wisdom on me. I mean, my situation is a little different, as I worked for one company doing P&ID's all day long.. so I interacted with pipers and even the pipefitters over in our resident shop. So for me to enter this field, I had 11-12 years of stuff I learned just by listening, and working with the designers.

I got three different group leaders I work with right now. And each one is a LOT different then the others. The one likes to "spoon-feed" me work, and when he does that I'm doing things quickly, yet not learning nearly as fast because I'm pretty much running pipe 50' at a time, so the overall "picture" of the job isn't always available to me. It's kind of like someone sending you into in a dark tunnel with a flashlight with dull batteries. Enough to see, but only see as much as he allows you to. But, hey, that's how he works.. there's still progress for me involved.

Another group leader has been piping for 40+ years.. he's fantastic to work with. He explains EVERYTHING out in full to me, and even includes examples and stories about why something is done or not done. I like working with him, I always go into those jobs knowing I'm going to learn a TON.

The other group leader, is actually a really good mix of both, but the issue with his jobs is that he's the only guy in our department that's certified to visit his client's facility. So normally, I get field sketches and blurry pictures to design off of. Not impossible by any means, but it's a far cry from visiting the site and seeing what's what and where firsthand.

But enough of my rambling. hehe.

I've asked my share of stupid questions, and I HAVE gotten razzed and ribbed for them and about them, but it's always been in good nature. I've never had anyone genuinely get angry. I think most of my "how should I pipe this?" questions came in the first 6-7 months. After that, my questions have turned into more client/job-specific questions. ie. "Hey, if we run that vent that high, we'll hit structure, would the client mind if we routed it a different way?"

I know, the author of this topic took a lot of "wrong ways" in going about asking for help, but still there shouldn't be a "one-strike- your-out" approach given to the guy.

Oh, and don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you or anyone is mean or being a jerk or anything, as I don't think anyone was actually really THAT hard on the guy, I'm just voicing a viewpoint as a fresher. I thoroughly enjoy this group and value every single e-mail and post I recieve.. hell, I archive them myself for future reference.

Keep up the excellent group everyone.

• In PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Wright <chrisw@...> wrote:
  >
  >
  > On Jan 10, 2007, at 6:28 AM, Mike Roble wrote:
  >
  > > I agree. I, too, am new to the field, and when I see questions
  like
  > > that,
  > > lame or not, greeted like that, if makes me paranoid to ask any
  > > questions of
  > > my own. I've learned in my 11 years of working WITH pipers and 1
  year
  > > working AS a piper, that this line of work is all a matter
  of "getting
  > > experience". "Piping" is not taught at schools, there's no
  courses,
  > > nothing.
  > > the only way to learn is by observing and/or asking questions and
  lots
  > > of
  > > them.
  > Useful point--how do you learn if you don't ask questions?
  > The answer is that you don't, but you have to learn not to be a
  pain in
  > the ass, or you'll get answers that are incomplete, or deliberately
  > wrong or meaningless. Or you'll get brushed off or thrown out of
  the
  > office. Asking questions takes a certain amount of native
  intelligence,
  > communications skills some consideration and the ability to
  convince
  > someone that you're serious about the answer. You also need to have
  an
  > inner filter to tell you if you've truly learned what you need to
  know.
  > In short you need to learn how to ask questions the smart way
  > <http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>
  >
  > The original poster ignored all the foregoing and came across as
  > totally clueless. That's why he got brushed off. People on this
  list
  > work for a living and they don't have the time to try to figure out
  > what someone actually needs to know when they ask open-ended
  questions.
  > There's no way to figure out what he knew or whether he'd taken the
  > first step toward finding out, so trying to pose a real answer is
  damn
  > near impossible.
  >
  > I've been mentoring people since before most of the people on this
  list
  > were toilet-trained, and I know what I'm talking about. In that
  time
  > I've started to lose a little patience when someone half my age
  with
  > half my experience gives me patronizing lectures about how to
  answer
  > questions. Life sometimes gets rough around the edges--get used to
  it.
  >
  > Christopher Wright P.E. |"They couldn't hit an elephant at
  > chrisw@... | this distance" (last words of Gen.
  > ____________________| John Sedgwick, Spotsylvania 1864)
  > http://www.skypoint.com/~chrisw
  >