Re: Info on piping design sources

One slight modification to Steve's words: working with sometimes-silly people is a lot better than working with ill-informed, arrogant or downright dangerously oblivious people. Once one gets sufficiently deep into this business silliness can be a great stress reliever (and I don't mean PWHT).

Personally, I like to get a hold of a PFD whenever possible as it tells a lot about what's happening to the fluids, but these are not always available for various reasons.

I think Steve means PFD when he says flowsheet. Material balance is a term I've only started to notice over the past 10 years or so, but I can claim to have seen only 5 or 6 companies' versions since then, so I'm obviously not aware of all ways of doing things.

These days it seems that the P&ID people are adding more specific notes which helps quite a bit. In the proverbial "old days" I'd end up asking process, "is this what you intended" by producing a hand-drawn iso sketch if something was unclear.

With 3D models on company networks today the process group has access to physical piping configurations - I sometimes wonder if they bother to check this stuff. Often, process people are chem engineers who may or may not be able to interpret 3D models (sure, it's a nice, rotatable picture, but there's not easily-seen annotation unless one knows how to manipulate the software), let alone 2D drawings.

Paul

Steve McKenzie wrote:
> Segun Odukoya
>
> The question you were asked is a very poor one (I assume you meant to type
> tandem) to use for employee selection purposes. There is no pump type that
> specifically requires a tandem seal. It is merely one option to deal with
> possible seal failure. You should count yourself very lucky you did not get
> the job, as you would have been working with at least one silly person. So
> maybe the question did work after all, but in reverse to expectations.
>
> Your second question depends partly on the industry. There are a number or
> documents which need to be jointly developed, including P&ID, layouts,
> equipment lists, flowsheets, control philosophy material and energy
> balances.
> In the areas I work, the balances and flowsheets are normally developed by
> process, as is the first pass P&ID. The P&ID is the real interactive
> document requiring input from process and mech/piping. However sometimes a
> change must be reflected back to the flowsheets equipment lists etc.
> For most process work I expect a completed flowsheet from process, and work
> jointly with them to produce the P&ID.
> Interested to hear how others work.
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>> From: segun odukoya <segunodukoya@yahoo.com>
>> Reply-To: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=9dSUnbK3EikhcnQfaIYSfZ_wGoqWtIynD3aTKYOyl27UQAZZaLgh7Upp31b1FHE_s9PxOADiA0V0bBAyKEBKbXb7hFZ-Dg">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a>
>> To: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=9dSUnbK3EikhcnQfaIYSfZ_wGoqWtIynD3aTKYOyl27UQAZZaLgh7Upp31b1FHE_s9PxOADiA0V0bBAyKEBKbXb7hFZ-Dg">PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com</a>
>> Subject: Re: [PipingDesign] Info on piping design sources
>> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 11:57:55 -0800 (PST)
>>
>> Good day guys,
>> I joined this group about 3 days ago and at least I
>> have learnt 3 things.
>>
>> My question to the group is which pump does not
>> require tadem seal? This question cost me a job
>> recently at an interview.
>>
>> Also, what is the most important document that a
>> piping and mechanical engineer require from the
>> process team to start carrying out its activity?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Segun Odukoya
>>
>>
>> --- Paul Bowers <pbowers@pipingdesign.com> wrote:
>>
>>> iliasvitalis77 wrote:
>>>> Good morning everybody.
>>>> This is my first post in this forum.
>>>> I would like you to direct me to a source where I
>>> can obtain
>>>> information on the design of multiproduct
>>> pipelines. I'm aware that
>>>> this topic is rather vague but I would appreciate
>>> any help. Due to the
>>>> fact that I'm rather novice in the pipeline design
>>> and fabrication
>>>> procedure, some reference books, articles will be
>>> certainly quite
>>>> helpfull as well.
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Elias Vitalis
>>>> Engineering Department.
>>>
>>> Hi Elias,
>>>
>>> Try 'Pipeline Rules of Thumb' by E.W. McAllister and
>>> 'Piping and
>>> Pipeline Engineering' by George A. Antaki.
>>>
>>> Paul
Received on Sat Feb 24 01:37:00 2007