I agree with John Young that the isometric generation has to usually have some
modification when using 3D products. Most companies buy the software and expect
cheap unskilled labor to create facilities. Most companies have been successful
before the evolution of piping software and quickly forget what got them to
where
they are. In the past they used highly skilled designers to create accurate
drawings, check information and direct less skilled labor. The purpose most
firms,
including my own, look at software as a method of cutting back on having
designers
with experience. Hence reducing costs. Companies need to look at how they do
business and find a software that is compatible with that methodology. We
currently
are using a 2D package that we generate isometrics for small well tie-ins and
gathering systems. We also use it for reasonably large compressor transmission
facilities. These are done on a short time line and vendor data is almost always
critical pathed. We give the construction firms what they need and not a lot of
frills.
3D products also have a tendency to be very expensive and we find that a lot of
our
clients would not have the resources and the skill manpower to maintain a model
after the Engineering firm has created it. Most field and facility offices we
deal
with fall back to simple, possibly CAD generated not always, isometics. Don't
get
me wrong though, I feel that major international facilities with life spans in
the
20 & 30+ years, that these companies may be able to afford the costs.
<a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=zlxjQt31dX5k3PI1TYdDcAnsi12Ry2LLkfFJTxllCzAIhFtlZgbSEIingO8D3oaAutZC0QnyG3aTvRfOFLE">PipingDesign@onelist.com</a> wrote:
> > ___________________________________________________
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> Mailing List: <http://www.onelist.com/community/PipingDesign>
> Webpage: <http://www.PipingDesign.com>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There is 1 message in this issue.
>
> Topics in today's digest:
>
> 1. [Fwd: Iso Production and Checking]
> From: Paul Bowers <pbowers@PipingDesign.com>
>
>
>
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:04:34 -0400
> From: Paul Bowers <pbowers@PipingDesign.com>
> Subject: [Fwd: Iso Production and Checking]
>
> John Young wrote:
>
> > I believe that "Auto Isos" will never be successful since drawing Isometrics
> > requires a certain amount of creativity which computers do not have. For
> > example there is no best position to place dimensions or item numbers and
> > since isos are non-scale drawings there is a great deal of judgement needed
> > to show the piping clearly, place dimensions, etc. Offsets are very
> > difficult for a computer as they need adjustment of the offset box to make
> > them look clear. They will always require some cleanup and even cleaned up
> > they still have the quality of cave drawings. I have been told that many
> > Engineering companies average about 4 hours to clean up isos. This means
> > that if changes are made on the model and new Isos need to be generated the
> > cleanup has to start again. This seems to be why most places seem to make
> > changes by pencil on the original which make printing copies difficult and
> > electronic storage useless. No other industry would accept lower quality
> > from a computer than manual drawing!!
> > RE: Bills of material. Many programs can generate a bill of material but
> > these material lists are very often inaccurate and cannot be extracted
> > automatically or summarized. An Isometric drawing program which cannot
> > summarize material is like buying an accounting program which can write
> > checks but cannot add them up to keep track of the balance. Fabricators who
> > have bought software to break engineering drawings into Fabrication spools
> > say that non of the Engineers will guarantee the accuracy of their drawings
> > which make automatic drawings almost useless. For the production and cleanup
> > of Isos many companies seem to think that if they teach someone to use the
> > software they will automatically know piping. This is equivalent to learning
> > a word processor and thinking it will make you an author. Computer software
> > is a tool to allow experienced pipers/drafters to be more productive.
> > Computers will never replace experience and knowledge, they will only help.
> > Users should know the basics of Piping and Drafting first. Engineering
> > companies seem to create CAD departments with computer people who know
> > nothing about Piping or Drafting and they are buying software. They don't
> > even know what the drawings are going to be used for or what information the
> > Installer/Fabricator needs.
> > Dow in Texas have changed their auto iso program to put Item codes on the
> > drawings instead of a written bill of material. A giant step backward! The
> > only reason for the codes is for MANUAL entry of material by their data
> > entry people, insane! Material codes are useless to the people actually
> > using the drawings and of course they must be redrawn. There should never be
> > a manual material takeoff from drawings generated on a computer. This
> > eliminates the whole purpose of using computers plus it adds mistakes.
> >
> > John Young
> > Acorn Pipe Systems Inc
> > 1-800-363-9777 or 1-780-963-3303
> > Fax 780-963-7156
> > email <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=nmLcp0uEbsQ8W4DwEdtcZEKIhzADzf3l9lddrjuekmj3u7hUMSwnWtjY9YuHVUEkls9083giOo7AnsMG">jyoung@acornpipe.com</a>
> > www.acornpipe.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Paul Bowers <pbowers@PipingDesign.com>
> > To: <PipingDesign@onelist.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 7:22 PM
> > Subject: Iso Production and Checking
> >
> > > Since virtually all piping software features some sort of automatic
> > > isometric production, I'm wondering if users find that a lot of time
> > > is spent "cleaning" them, IE, spiffing them up to make them more
> > > presentable for the fabricator. After all, a machine doesn't
> > > necessarily know how to produce legible and clearly laid-out drawings.
> > >
> > > Also, how is the checking process handled? Because the iso is
> > > generated directly from the 3D CAD model, is there any point in iso
> > > checking? It would seem to make more sense to check the model itself,
> > > but then the checkers require full-time access to the model and
> > > software, plus adequate training.
> > >
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > PS The list settings have been changed to "unmoderated", so replies
> > > will be immediately sent to all subscribers without filtering. Spam is
> > > still not tolerated.
> > > ___________________________________________________
> > > Web-Based Resource for Process Piping Professionals
> > > Mailing List: <http://www.onelist.com/community/PipingDesign>
> > > Webpage: <http://www.PipingDesign.com>
>
>
>
Received on Tue Oct 26 09:30:00 1999