My name is Rob West and have been in the piping design world since
1981. What I have seen is design groups are now managed by engineers, years
ago most companies would promote a senior piper to a supervisor positions.
Experience is the key. I don't how many times some of my supervisors
(engineers) would ask me work up bids for preparing drawings. I think as
these engineers move up the company ladder
they would put another engineer in this spot. Spending my last five years
as liaison on the construction sites I have seen the quality of drawings
decline.
----Original Message-----
From: Paul Bowers [mailto:pbowers@PipingDesign.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 11:10 PM
To: <a href="/group/PipingDesign/post?postID=RvLXvJJEK-0IcEQ3fXAeE9pptTvBus-1UwgLikA683m0dN7mXOk-W7CWLfkkEkSDanls5qExHMAQDsfYQsqg">PipingDesign@onelist.com</a>
Subject: [PipingDesign] Re-Post
From: Paul Bowers <pbowers@PipingDesign.com>
I apologize if the list is getting this message twice. It was sent yesterday and has not yet appeared in my inbox. Perhaps the Onelist software has malfunctioned.
Paul
Nice first post, Jim. I have noticed the trend you speak of as well (CAD jockeys in the office with the more experienced guys in the field as "fixers" - not in all cases, of course, don't all you office guys jump on me for saying that).
I have to wonder if this strategy comes from the necessity to win contracts with a low initial bid and then have a "stranglehold" on the client once construction begins. The engineering/procurement phase is supposed to be what, +/-10% of the total job cost? What if you chop that figure considerably and then just lump it in with the construction budget?
On the other hand, there's something to be said for minimizing the possibility of endless tweaking of the "drawings". You know, as in "the last 5% of the design can take up 25% of the manhours".
Regardless of the motivations for the trend, it seems the less experienced pipers are not learning as much from the old hands as compared to the good ole days.
Paul
james morgan wrote:
> Well back to the points raised about "Freelance Designers".
> >From my own experience there has been a deliberated and constant drive by
> all the large international Design Co's operating in London, and that is
to
> remove the layer of Designers out of the design loop.
> It was in 1985 that I was last working as senior Designer on
> {paper/ink/pencil}, a green field project.
> CAD {PDMS} was already in operation in that particular Co, but under the
> control of the IT department.
> It was acknowledge later by senior management that a decision had been
taken
> to remove the Freelance Designers { which were expensive and difficult to
> control, and to replace them by young graduates, programme operators, who
> were much cheaper and easier to mould into the Co ways of doing things.
> The Designers who worked along side me were all moved out to the
fabrication
> works and construction sites, to finish off the projects.
> About 30% of the project had been left out of the loop and moved over to
the
> construction part of the project, by means of the phrase " Site Fix ".
> Over the years these same young graduates who could drive the computers
> well, but who have never held an Iso pad or used 30 meter tape in anger,
> were now in positions of authority and did not take kindly to acknowledge
> these facts.
> Looking back it seams stupid that just to save a few more pounds for the
> shareholders, the experience of the Designers was lost out of the design
> loop.
> There was a definite move by these large Co's to keep Designers off the
> computer, and it was only in 1995 that I was able to learn Autocad.
> Well I think that's enough for now.
> BRegards to you all.
> Jim.
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