Re: [PipingDesign] Snow loading

From: <Geoff>
Date: Thu Sep 19 2002 - 22:56:00 EDT

Dear Panjak,

When I came to Australia many years ago I expected the "sun burnt" country. Well I go snow skiing every year here. Doesnt India have the Himalayas?

Snow is a load condition that may be rare with insulated hot lines but could occur on cold product lines. Snow would be considered a dead load on the pipe. One could just increase the density of the insulation or product to account for this load in your stress program.

Anti freeze is ususally ethylene glycol. Cost would be based on location, supply and demand (ie quantity). Best you get prices locally or over the internet.

Geoff
--- Mandal Pankaj <Pankaj.Mandal@siemens.com> wrote:

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<tt>
Dear Goeff,<BR>
<BR>
Being in a tropical country we rarely experience snow. However, I am<BR> interested to know how do we consider snow loading in piping. (In case we<BR> decide to erect a power plant in the heart of Greenland).<BR> <BR>
Some queries:<BR>
a)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Do we need to consider snow loading in hot piping like main steam<BR>
piping. The problem is that insulation cladding surface temperature is<BR> considered to be 20°C. So shouldn't all ice melt?<BR> b)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; What about cold piping (utility and oil/gas piping)?<BR>
<BR>
By the way, can anyone throw some light on anti freeze compounds and their<BR> applicability. Also some estimated price could be of great help.<BR> <BR>
Pankaj Mandal.<BR>
<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -----Original
Message-----<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
From:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Geoff Stone DD&amp;D Australia<BR> [mailto:blenrayaust@yahoo.co.uk]<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 20 September 2002 03:01<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Re: [PipingDesign] Forwarded message:<BR>
Welcome to PipingDesign<BR>
<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Rajesh,<BR>
<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Surely the
operating load is the normal load and the<BR> earthquake the unusaul<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; case. WLogic
tells us that when the earthquake occurs the<BR> pipe is likely to be<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; subject to the
high temperature case. Thus both should be<BR> considered.<BR>
<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Its different for
wind, traffic, snow and earthquake as all<BR> are unsustained<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; loads.<BR>
<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Geoff Stone<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ---
Rajesh_V_Balapure@ril.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;HR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&lt;html&gt;&lt;body&gt;<BR>

<BR>
<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;tt&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Dear
Tanmoy,&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Seismic loads are
to be combined with operating tempearture<BR> Load for stress&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
analysis.&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; As there is very
rare&amp;nbsp; possibility for occurence of<BR> both the condition&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (Design &amp;amp;
seismic)at once.&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &amp;amp; for
seismic case Normal Allowable loads do not<BR> apply.&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; refer design
spec.&amp;nbsp; of the project or consult to<BR> mechanical dept.&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Regards,&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
rajesh.&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &amp;quot;Paul
Bowers&amp;quot; &amp;lt;pbowers@pipingdesign.com&amp;gt; on<BR> 09/19/2002 01:51:02<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; PM&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Please respond to
PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
To:&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>
&amp;lt;PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; cc:&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Subject:&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; [PipingDesign] Forwarded message:<BR> Welcome to<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

PipingDesign&lt;BR&gt;<BR>

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ----- Original
Message -----&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From:
&amp;quot;TANMOY SABUD&amp;quot; &amp;lt;tsabud@yahoo.com&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; To:
&amp;quot;PipingDesign Moderator&amp;quot;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&amp;lt;PipingDesign-owner@yahoogroups.com&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sent: Wednesday,
September 18, 2002 9:20 PM&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subject: Re:
Welcome to PipingDesign&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &amp;gt; Dear
sir&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &amp;gt; Thanks a
lot for membership. I am having 10 yaers<BR> of&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &amp;gt;
experience in piping,pipeline &amp;amp; offshore . Nowadays<BR> we&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &amp;gt; are
working for one Gas compression project which&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &amp;gt; comes
are under seismic zone-3. Moreover we have&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &amp;gt;
temperature&amp;nbsp; differernce of 28 deg c between<BR> operating&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &amp;gt; and
design condition as mentioned in the line list.&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &amp;gt; What is
your suggestion regarding summation of&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &amp;gt;
earthquake load with design temperature for<BR> checking&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &amp;gt; of
allowable nozzle loads of compressors or<BR> pumps,or&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &amp;gt; it is
prudent to take earthquake load with<BR> operating&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &amp;gt;
temperature.Can you advise what is to be done<BR> during&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &amp;gt; stress
analysis .&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &amp;gt; WITH
REGARDS&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &amp;gt; TANMOY
SABUD&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
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&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Texas Flange - a
good source for information on industrial<BR> flanges, all&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; they ask is for
referrals for designs they help with.&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
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877-610-8924.&lt;BR&gt;<BR>
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