Re: pipe fitters layouts

I asked my fitters. Here is what they normally use for reference (some have it in their shirt pockets, a 4"x7" blue book). Pipe Fitters Manual "Welding Fittings and Piping Components" by Tube Turn, Inc.

In my 32 years participation in piping projects for the nuclear, cogen, refineries, pipelines, wastewater, and process industries (11 years as field project manager), I heard many "experienced" fitters and welders telling tall stories about how they've saved the project while office engineers screwed the design up. In fact, such stories come from other crafts as well; the ironworkers, electricians, etc. I guess ignorance IS bliss.
Paul, unless it is small-bore piping, fitters don't determine piping layout at the detail level unless approved by the responsible engineer. What's on the approved drawing is what's to be installed. The reason why projects create FCNs and As-built documentations.

When it comes to questions of "how", none better then to ask your pipe fitters, but when the questions are "why", "when" "where" and "tell me more", the design engineers are the ones you deal with. Many times fitters give valuable suggestions to improve the design layout prepared by the engineers. So, it is prudent that engineers are thoughtful of what pipe fitters run into when design information are incomplete, incomprehensible, or sometimes downright ridiculous. Analysis, design rules, specifications, Codes, reports, and drawings are one side of the equation; Materials, fabrication, and installation are another.
To become an experienced piping engineer you must understand problems and frustrations the project encounters during fabrication, installation, testing, and startup. Filed experience for engineers is invaluable.

• In PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Bowers" <pbowers@p...> wrote:
  > I've always found that piping designers (as opposed to capital E
  engineers)
  > determine piping layout at the detail level. The worst cases I've
  seen were
  > when the "engineer" micromanaged and other times when
  the "engineer" didn't
  > really care.
  >
  > Experienced fitters and welders can tell you important stuff that
  you didn't
  > learn in school, too bad there are not more of them participating
  in this
  > forum. Their lack of contribution here is probably due to their
  reluctance
  > to speak up somewhere where engineering is prominent. That, or
  they're just
  > saving up practical jokes to play on the engineers on the list. You
  can
  > never tell. Those bastards.
  >
  > Paul
  >
  >
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: "hankl46" <hleveret@a...>
  >
  > > No such book with that title exist. You probably meant "Pipe
  Fitters
  > > and Pipe Welders Handbook"
  > > Rule of the trade; Except for small bore piping, pipe fitters
  don't
  > > determine piping layout design. Engineers do.
  > >
  > > --- In PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com, "ganilla2002"
  <ganilla2002@y...>
  > > wrote:
  > > > Im looking for a book called 601 LAYOUTS FOR PIPE FITTERS. I
  dont
  > > > know the author. If anyone can give me some information on
  where
  > > to
  > > > purchase, I would greatly appericate it.