Hi Rich,
It's been a while! How are you?
Back to the discussion:
I don't work for Bentley, but I used to when it was Rebis. I will not
benefit by anyone choosing the AutoPLANT platform. But I will still add
my $.02 worth of my experiences with it. I've done piping on the board,
in 2D AutoCAD, AutoPLANT, OMNI (Microstation based AutoPLANT), CadWorx,
and a number of other smaller less powerful platforms. I've never had
my hands on PDS or any of the other more powerful Microstation based
plant design programs so I can't comment on them. I can say this,
AutoPLANT has the best balance of price, startup speed, ease of use, and
ease of customization of any of the programs I've used. I learned it in
one week of just reading a tutorial without the benefit of a formal
training class. I was doing customizations on it within a month. With
the company I'm currently with, we are using it on fairly large
biopharmaceutical projects as well as smaller turnkey skids. One of
the few problems we have faced is the need to translate information to
the A&E firms that we are working with, of which the majority are using
a Microstation based product. And that is coming down the "pipeline" so
I'm told. In short we have been very pleased with our choice of
AutoPLANT as our design Plant design suite.
Regards,
Aaron Wolfe
Biopharm Systems Designer
Paul Mueller Company
P.O. Box 828
Springfield, Mo 65801
(417) 575-9780
E-mail: awolfe@muel.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Scotti [mailto:Rich@Scotti.com]
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 9:30 AM
To: PipingDesign@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PipingDesign] 3D CAD Piping Software
Paul (et al)
I'm the product manager for Bentley's 3D Plant Design software
(AutoPLANT and PlantSpace). Before you disregard the following summary
as the rattle of a software vendor let me clarify that this response is
coming from the guy that did 15+yrs of good old fashioned design work...
still got the dent in my finger to prove it. This is intentionally
neutral and is not intended to promote our products. I'll save that for
a follow-up Bentley specific rant.... This one is simply the evolution
of computerized piping design as one designer observed it.
Stage 1 - Before CAD.
In the old days we used to do various onion skin layouts followed by
orthographic (on linen, velum, Mylar, etc). It was easy to understand
where each design was as it was on the same sheet we would issue for
construction. We were clearly in the drafting business and this was our
product.
Stage 2 - CAD
Slicktalking carpet baggers showed up offering US$100k electronic
drafting machines. We still did 2d layout and even made a complete
ortho. The only difference was that after the drawing was mostly done
some "skateboarder out of high school would copy it into a computer to
be plotted. At least everyone had the same lettering! Other than that
this phase was a total looser. Anyone ever take up a pencil and scrub a
plot of a CAD drawing to avoid waiting for another plot?
Stage 3 - Electric paper (CADD)
We still are making 2d drawings but now the designer does layouts (still
2d) on a computer. Paul, this is the 2d you refer to in your initial
post? At least we are back to the designer generating his own final
product. We make a drawing and issue one.
Stage 4 - Models
This doesn't necessarily mean 3d. We make a single design base that is
used to produce multiple deliverable (Iso, Sections, BOM, etc). Now for
the first time we can leverage the information put in the computerized
layout. We make one and issue many. This phase started with the various
2.5d and includes most of the current 3D Piping CAD products (already
mentioned in previous posts). Unfortunately this phase still sees our
main product as being traditional drawings and reports. We are still in
the drafting business. For the record.... There is no question that
physical design is best performed in 3D.
Stage 5 - Interactive modeling (the current cutting edge) Now design information is structured. We can migrate between the design phases (study, detailed design, procurement, construction, operation, decommissioning). And share it between the various disciplines (process, mechanical, structural, automation, etc). You will notice that a few vendors offering this integration in one brand name or another. The benefit to the designers include things like consistency between P&IDs, Loops, Isos, etc. The disadvantage to the designers is the complications associated with administering this new environment..... We are working on that part. The biggest benefit is that our design information becomes much more useful. We are no longer in the drafting business as drawings are just one of the ways design information can be delivered to the owner-operator clients. This also provides for new scenarios like distributed engineering where design tasks are shared between distant offices. Change management notifies us of changes affecting our work or prevents improper changes to design (example: It should take a few extra steps to change an Iso that has already been sent to the fabricator). You will see a few vendors offer these and other new capabilities. The next 24 months should be very interesting to our industry.
I too hope this sparks some discussion.
Regards,
Rich Scotti
Product Manager, 3D Plant products
Bentley Systems Inc
Does anyone have any comments/opinions on what is currently on the market? And relative cost of use?
I am currently bashing my head against a wall doing 2D piping in AutoCAD. Might as well draw by hand, as far as I'm concerned.
Paul
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Received on Mon Feb 23 11:38:00 2004
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