Re: [PipingDesign] tell me idea guys........

From: <umesh>
Date: Wed Jan 10 2007 - 18:19:00 EST

All,

I know there are people, who ask hi-fi technical questions without doing any homework & sometimes without knowing what they are asking.. In such case bashing or brushing off is good & acceptable…that will make him to think for next questions..

I don’t think Shankar did any mistake in seeking advice…Cause he himself made clear that he is a fresh graduate..For example melvin_magbanua@yahoo.com (Mail mug) send an answer for that question..that is quite OK.

And saying about me…half of the age..i don’t think so..wrong guess..Half of the experience…wrong again…By the way…age is not true measure..for that matter donkeys get aged..I have seen sharp 20+ freshers and dumb 60+ engineers..

To Shankar and other similar freshers to piping field… Here is one of the right answers…though it cost me 100$ to write.. Now after writing this
good mail, people (so called experts) try to find silly mistakes to prove something or should I say "nothing"

First few things you HAVE to do:

A. Don’t throw away following books/notes of your Engineering collage..
1.       Mechanics & Strength of materials
2.       Engineering materials or Material science/engineering
3.       Hydraulics or fluid power dynamics
4.       Heat transfer & thermodynamics
5.       Machine design or Mechanical system design.
6.       Corrosion engineering (If you have thatsubject)
B. Visit a technical bookshop & buy/Collect the following technical books
1. Process plant layout & piping design by roger hunt
I like it because it is simple & has good explanations.. 2. The piping guide by David R. sherwood & Dennis J. whistance I like it because it is more pictorial.. 3. Piping Handbook: Mohinder L. Nayyar
I like it because it has all the data at one place.. 4. Piping Handbook by S. Crocker, Reno Ceyton King This is like a bible. Collect it. You will know its importance in due time. 5. Piping and Pipe Support Systems: Design and Engineering by Paul R. Smith, Thomas J. Van Laan
This is to know basic of stress calc’s 6. Casti Guidebook to Asme B31.3 : Process Piping by Glynn E. Woods This is to enter the ASME Code world…
Visit the website below to have a look at piping related books.. http://www.spedweb.com/spedwebpublic/BookStore/BookStore.htm http://www.pipingdesign.com/books1.html
C. Whenever you want to know something about piping, “GOOGLE IT” on internet, believe me you will find tons of documents/specifications/deetails.

Secondly few things you have to understand.. Part A: Defining scope of Piping engineering is quite difficult. Cause it is vast. Process piping, off shore piping, under ground piping, sub sea piping, cross country piping, Nuclear piping, Mineral industry piping, Lined piping, Low temp & high temperature piping. List goes on. Said that most probably you will enter process-piping field, so concentrate on Book no 6 mentioned above

Part B: Importance of piping, In case of normal plant (No specially built, high cost equipments) piping (design, engineering, erection, testing, rework etc) constitutes 30% to 45% plant total cost. Hence, if you use a good design & engineering practice, right away you could save 5% of plant cost (3% saving always exists). If you calculate this amount, it is huge & hence proper importance should be given to piping at all stages.

Part C: Importance and limitations of advanced 3D modelling tools. There are many 3D modelling softwares used widely in the piping industry. PDS, PDMS, Bentley etc. Don’t rush to learn these softwares thinking that that is Piping. If you get an opportunity learn it. They are good tools, but a tool is good only when the operator knows how to use it & how intelligently it can be used. If you know piping design, these tools are very handy other wise they are nothing.

Thirdly few areas of piping you should know, q Piping layout & design engineering – A guy specialized in this area is called “Piping Design Engineer” or “Piping designer”. If you wish to be in this field, you need to be good at International codes, layout capability with a vision for daily operation, maintenance methods, erection, dismantling methods etc. This field need more common sense than hi-fi engineering skills. This field also include, Pre-bid engineering (Proposal engineering), Conceptual engineering, Basic engineering and Detail engineering (Don’t ask me what are these. You will know them in due time)
q Piping stress analysis – A guy specialized in this area is called “Piping stress Engineer” or “Piping flexibility engineer”. If you wish to be in this field, you need to be good at stress analysis skills using software line CAEPIPE, CAESER, AUTOPIPE etc
q Piping material & specifications engineering – A guy specialized in this area is called “Piping Material engineer” or “Piping Spec. Engineer”. If you wish to be in this field, you need to be good at materials & their properties, thorough knowledge of international codes (ASME/API/ASTM to name few), good knowledge of corrosion engineering & very good knowledge about proper use of valves & pipe fittings.
q Piping fabrication, erection & quality control engineering – A guy specialized in this area is called “Piping site engineer” or “Piping field engineer”. If you wish to be in this field, you need to be good at quality control skills (NDT/NDE inspections), work scheduling & progress monitoring skills, dealing with erection contractor on daily basis etc.

Don’t think that the above four fields are independent. They are interdependent. Even if you are in one of the above field, you need to know all the four fields very well to function as a good engineer. That’s why don’t make up your mind now itself for any one of the above fields.

Start with Layout & design, learn codes & materials, understand nature corrosion & erosion, learn basics pipe stress analysis & when you get an opportunity visit the plant site or a piping construction site.

When you join your new company, I am sure that your piping boss tells to study one or more books/codes I mentioned above. You can impress him, If you say “I already know that”…LOL

Finally, don’t dishearten by these guys mails. I already send a small heatwave for that..
Remember one thing: “Always do your homework before asking any technical question”

Best of luck in your first job..Where is my 100$..LOL

Umesh Ken.,Senior Piping Specification Engineer, Alcan Engineering Pty. Ltd., Brisbane, QLD, Australia

Favorite saying:
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter"? ........... Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr

On Jan 10, 2007, at 6:28 AM, Mike Roble wrote:

> I agree. I, too, am new to the field, and when I see questions like
> that,
> lame or not, greeted like that, if makes me paranoid to ask any
> questions of
> my own. I've learned in my 11 years of working WITH pipers and 1 year
> working AS a piper, that this line of work is all a matter of "getting
> experience". "Piping" is not taught at schools, there's no courses,
> nothing.
> the only way to learn is by observing and/or asking questions and lots
> of
> them.

Useful point--how do you learn if you don't ask questions? The answer is that you don't, but you have to learn not to be a pain in the ass, or you'll get answers that are incomplete, or deliberately wrong or meaningless. Or you'll get brushed off or thrown out of the office. Asking questions takes a certain amount of native intelligence, communications skills some consideration and the ability to convince someone that you're serious about the answer. You also need to have an inner filter to tell you if you've truly learned what you need to know. In short you need to learn how to ask questions the smart way <http://www.catb. org/~esr/ faqs/smart- questions. html>

The original poster ignored all the foregoing and came across as totally clueless. That's why he got brushed off. People on this list work for a living and they don't have the time to try to figure out what someone actually needs to know when they ask open-ended questions. There's no way to figure out what he knew or whether he'd taken the first step toward finding out, so trying to pose a real answer is damn near impossible.

I've been mentoring people since before most of the people on this list were toilet-trained, and I know what I'm talking about. In that time I've started to lose a little patience when someone half my age with half my experience gives me patronizing lectures about how to answer questions. Life sometimes gets rough around the edges--get used to it.

Christopher Wright P.E. |"They couldn't hit an elephant at chrisw@skypoint. com | this distance" (last words of Gen. ____________ ________| John Sedgwick, Spotsylvania 1864) http://www.skypoint .com/~chrisw

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Received on Wed Jan 10 18:19:00 2007

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