Re: [PipingDesign] Asking questions [Was: hello]

From: <John>
Date: Sat Jan 12 2008 - 08:40:00 EST

All right I usually ignore this crap but enough is enough damn it. These questions are rude and ignorant... why not ask how do I do brain surgery?,or how do I design a space shuttle?, or how do I build a thermonuclear weapon?

The basics of piping design must be self taught either at the university level or self study pure and simple as to "How do Design Pipe" why not ask how do I design a FTL drive (Faster than Light drive)... And if you fail to see what I and Chris are talking about your life and career will not be a positive one pick your own butt up and learn!

When I was a young man their was no internet no web forums and yet I managed somehow to learn this trade maybe people who ask questions like how do I design pipe should have their internet taken away from them so they read and study via text!

Best Regards,
John C. Luf
Cleveland Ohio U.S.A when I'm not in Austria

Member B31.3, Piping Engineer - Stress Analysis, Pipe Supports, Component Design, and Surge Analysis... according to my daughters master of unimportant trivia

             I can't tell if you have a problem with the notion of asking

questions the smart way or with trying to paint me as an old fart.

Either way I think I'll stick to my guns. I've been in this business

over 40 years, and I know something about how to ask questions and

how to answer them. It's one of the most important things a sprog

engineer will ever learn.

On Jan 11, 2008, at 2:04 PM, shahid Rafiq wrote:

> Dont compare questions like, "How to design pipe" with "where is

> light switch?" Answering each has different results.

I wasn't comparing questions--I was illustrating a stupid question

with a typical type of stupid question in the hope that people would

remember that there are indeed such things as stupid questions and

avoid them.

> "Remember like a sage" means

> 1. Respecting the person who is being asked.

> 2. Using the new acquired knowledge to the present problem and in

> future with such problem.

I expect remembering like a sage really means that you should ponder

the answer and determine how it fits into the remainder of your

knowledge. That's what sages do.

> A teacher or senior tells the solution of a problem in much less

> time which is why people turn to them. Studying, refering the

> library, search for the right source takes more time.

A 'teacher' (which none of us is, BTW) can only respond to what he's

asked. If the 'student' can't ask a clear, sensible question no

teacher can provide the answer the student is looking for. Moreover

the correct answer to the wrong question does no one any good.

> And by the way you used your right not to like the saying.

And I do thank you for the opportunity.

> You spend too much of your precious time telling people that they

> should ask very advanced knowledge questions.

I don't spend any time at all telling people to ask advanced

questions. I do spend a lot of time telling people to ask sensible,

well-thought- out questions because only sensible questions get

sensible answers. Part of asking a sensible question is to dig around

a little before asking so you'll ask a smarter question and better

understand the answer. And I think it's fair to point out that if you

want to depend on a 'teacher' to give you an answer for what's

bothering you, you should expect an lecture from time to time.

> You also tell group that do some research before posting question.

> Believe me the answer to all the questions are found somewhere no

> matter how advanced these are. If everything could be studied with

> the help of books and internet ONLY then nothing would be taught in

> schools and universities. No teacher would be hired in universities.

Believe me when I tell you that anyone who expects to do something

meaningful in this business needs to learn to rely on his own

resources and to figure things out for himself. Teachers can help,

but learning takes place between your own ears, not because someone

tells you something is so. Anyone who thinks he can become an

engineer or designer by picking other people's brains will end up as

a second-rate wannabe, if he doesn't get sacked because he can't pull

his weight.

This list would be no use to anyone who doesn't know how to ask

questions, even if there weren't old crabs nagging people to think

about their questions before they ask them. Doing your homework is

part of asking a proper question. The question is very much like a

design problem in micro-scale. Design proceeds from what you have and

what you know to something you don't have and may never have seen. A

question proceeds from what you know to something you don't know. If

the design process isn't organized to build on something which

exists, success is only dumb luck. And if a question is asked

carelessly and not logically built on what you understand, you get


A question like, 'How do I design a pipe?' is unanswerable- -you spend

at least two years if not four, just to learn enough to begin as a

trainee. Such a question possibly be answered by e-mail in a couple

of paragraphs. Moreover 'design' can mean a hundred things, from

making layouts or arrangements to fluid resistance calculations to

stress analysis to making fab drawings or doing process analysis. All

of these are design tasks, and every one of them takes years of

experience to perform unsupervised. Even if someone wanted to, it's

unrealistic to expect that they'll lecture endlessly until you think

you understand what you think you want.

> Ok, I want to be kicked out of the group.

You'll have to kick yourself out--follow the instructions at the

bottom of each post.

Christopher Wright P.E. |"They couldn't hit an elephant at

chrisw@skypoint. com | this distance" (last words of Gen.

............ ......... ......... ......... | John Sedgwick, Spotsylvania


http://www.skypoint .com/~chrisw/



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Received on Sat Jan 12 08:40:00 2008

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